In my next post I am going to show you how I interpret the prayer in section 65 which calls for the kingdom to go forth but first, I had a few replies the other night that I have been pondering and want to address. Some of them were posted, while some were blocked by yours truly.
The exercise in doing a united group petition for the kingdom to return was an amazing experience for me... In a number of ways. It was wonderful to know there are others who are feeling anticipatory for the return of the Lord, his Servants and his kingdom.
It was surprising to me how quickly word spread to others with such little notice. One of the interesting things about it is that several others joined in with us that don’t necessarily understand and/or agree with the three watches doctrine yet they do believe that the kingdom needs to return and they wanted to participate.
It was a little bit of an eye opener to me.
First I would like to share a comment that really demonstrates the disconnect between those of us who have begun to see the three watch doctrine in the scriptures and many of our brothers and sisters in the gospel who don’t see it. The first comment was by NEPT;
“A few weeks ago in EQ meeting, one of the EQ pres was teaching about Zion, but in the contemporary sense that is misconstrued from its meaning in the scriptures. I added my two cents that Zion is much more literal than what was being discussed; that there were places designated by the Lord for his people, Zion would not be moved, and that one day those lands would be reclaimed. I also mentioned that we should be praying collectively for this to happen.
I found the response rather interesting. There was a universal feeling that I was getting ahead of myself, that Zion would come in due time when the saints had properly prepared for it, but at this time, we have so many things we need to do before Zion comes again. In essence, the saints would bring Zion themselves!
I wanted to shout, "Zion is coming, whether you are ready or not, so you best be ready!" Instead, I nodded and went back to reading the lesson manual.
Such is the life.”
Interestingly enough, TruthSeekerToo has been experiencing a similar thing as NEPT;
“NEPT-I am having a similar difficult time with the various lessons on Zion. All the talk about Zion being wherever you are, etc.”
And yet, she remembers learning about praying for the kingdom in Seminary or Church which goes to show that you really cannot stereotype what is taught and what is learned in the organizational structure across the board;
The idea of praying for the Kingdom to come is not new to me. I'm sure I learned it in seminary. I am suprised that it is new to so many others.
However, I think it is scary to most because most FEAR it. It is only because I am finally starting to understand the LOVE and mercy of the Great Jehovah that I can pray for these things.
I was a little surprised and taken back by the humility and integrity of Younger Dude who made the following comment;
“I have never even considered praying for the kingdom to come. I still feel very new and unfamiliar with a lot of these concepts. It honestly makes me nervous to think about praying for the servants to return - mostly cause I am not sure what that entails. The first time I read about Joseph returning, just like OWIW said, I imagined him coming and knocking on my door or something - lol. If this is all really going to happen - how and when is it all gonna go down? I guess it may be time to go reread the third watch posts.”
On the one hand, it is hard for me to understand how one can read the 50+ posts on this blog site and still not get the drift that servants are coming back with the keys to the kingdom… on the other hand;
a) I have been pondering these concepts for nearly 20 years and perhaps these concepts are not easy to assimilate in a few weeks, especially after a life time of being given a different paradigm.
b) I am a big part of the problem because I am a poor communicator. As I go back and review some of my old posts I am amazed at how poorly I present and explain things in the doctrines I am trying to convey! (all the more reason why you need to pay less attention to my pontificating and read the scriptural references in the spirit)
When Younger Dude says I am not sure what it entails, I am reminded of a passage from an unpublished revelation that Orson Pratt claimed he received:
“Indeed many of the very people who manifest so much zeal to warn others, and who pray so earnestly for my coming, have not themselves understood the Gospel nor obeyed it; and should I come, in answer to their prayers, it would be to their own destruction.”
One of the things I want to clarify is that I am not praying for the Lord to return in his glory… I am not praying for the end to come.
I am praying for the BEGINNING of the END to come which is the beginning of the last generation that Christ told his apostles about.
I am praying for the Servants to come and prepare the way for the Lord to come in secret for the third time, to nourish his vineyard for the last time preparatory to his coming in glory to destroy the wicked! ( See Jacob 5:70-72)
Cub made the following statement;
I'll be praying as well. This is a completely foreign concept to me, but in my quest for truth I am trying to be open to all possibilities right now.
Obviously Cub is someone who has not read all of the foundational posts leading up to this moment in time on the blog. (something I strongly recommend) How amazing is it that someone is that open to such a radical concept?
Then we have what I thought was a rather insightful observation from cds;
“Just a quick mention of how understanding the 3 watches make watching conference fun too, to see the comments made in context of having this understading or not. I thought it was interesting to see the new apostle Elder Anderson, talk about how we are living during the MWW and a couple of other comments that made it known that he is not aware of the 3 watches and how they will play out. Don't get me wrong I'm not worthy to sniff these men's shoes, I am so much more short of what I should be compared to them, so it's not critism just an observation.”
It is really fun and exhilarating to come to a point of understanding wherein you are picking up on the subtle statements of others and being able to reference their accuracy (or otherwise) from what you have treasured up in your heart from the scriptures!
Dan made the following statement;
“I regularly pray for "thy kingdom come". That we might see and recognize the spokesman. that I might be a tool myself.
that thr time might come when a remnant is prepared in power.
We're so in. wish i'd read this earlier to spread the word.”
I am not very familiar with Dan, either because he is new the blog or because he doesn't reply much. I wish I knew his background. I suspect that he may be a fundamentalist or has friends that are because one of the comments I blocked was from a friend of his.
It is neat that we can all agree that the light is going to shine forth again without all having to be in a total unity of the faith on all of the details... after all, part of the reason the servants need to return is to set all of us in order and bring us all into a unity of the faith.. that includes doctrinal understanding as well.
Even I am going to have to repent of doctrinal errors. I am only 99.9% correct on what I teach… LOL
Mrs Malachi states;
“We think this is a fabulous idea! What a way to celebrate the true Christmas Eve! What better gift could we offer our Savior than contrite hearts united in prayer for the return of His servants, and the establishment of the cause of Zion. Which must come before His kingdom can come! Zion has been on our minds and in our hearts for as long as we can remember!”
She is reminding us that Lectures and Faith and the scriptures inform us that Zion must be established and a consecrated people must be awaiting the arrival of the Lord of the Vineyard before the Kingdom of Heaven can come. There is an important distinction between the kingdom of God on earth and the kingdom of Heaven.”
The Hell Raiser seems to be saying that perhaps we are not as repentant and as awake as we need to be in order to offer up prayers that will be heard;
“Prayers that will really bring the servants here will be those that come from hearts and minds that are exercised in discerning between Christ and Antichrist. They will come from people who realize that they have been overcome by the beast. They will come from people who have tried and failed to live without receiving benefits from that beast. They will come from the poor of the earth who refuse to partake of such benefits; who have not been "seduced to participate" in those benefits (See Heleman 6). They will come from people like those who escaped from the clutches of King Noah, but were later overcome by the wicked priest Amulon (I think), while developing a community in the land of Helam. The people cried all day long because the burdens inflicted upon them were so great. They later cried in their hearts because it was made illegal to pray out loud. At first the Lord made their burdens light, where they could not feel them. Then they were released from bondage, and they KNEW that their deliverance came only from the Lord.”
The Hell Raiser reminds me of the prophecy of Heber C Kimball which I hope is not a true prophecy;
“..Before that day comes , however, the Saints will be put to a test that will try the integrity of the best of them. The pressure will become so great that the more righteous among them will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes.
Then the Prophet Joseph and others will make their appearance and those who have remained faithful will be selected to return to Jackson County, Missouri and take part in the upbuilding of that beautiful city, the New Jerusalem."
So… are any of us crying out day and night for deliverance because the pressure is so great? We all live in different circumstances. Perhaps there are some of us who are crying out day and night. The prophesy by Kimball makes it sound as if the latter day Children of Israel are in a similar physical bondage as our ancient forefathers were in when Moses led them out.
Another possibility is that the crying out has to do with the physical distress related to poverty. The following is an excerpt from an unpublished revelation;
“..I am about to perform a great work upon the face of the earth saith the Lord, Mine indignation is about to be poured out without measure upon the heads of this nation and all the nations of the earth, and they shall not escape. The cry of the poor, the widow and orphan is ascending unto mine ears, saith the Lord, I am about to avenge the the cry of mine elect by laying low the oppressor and executing the decree of mine heart upon all the ungodly from among them…” ) Page 92 Unpublished Revelations
If that prophecy is true, is it referring to the Celestial Saints, or the Terrestrial Saints that need to be chastened before deliverance comes? Perhaps the Hell Raiser is right about us not being repentant or awake enough to utter an adequate prayer and thus we need to be chastened...
Frankly, that is one of the reasons I want to start crying out now… I really don’t want to wait until we are in physical bondage before I start crying out for deliverance!
Anyway, those are just a few of the comments that I wanted to respond to
As I mentioned before, there were a few comments that I blocked.
I didn’t post them because I didn’t want to cause confusion to new visitors about what I have been teaching about the three watches doctrine.
Nevertheless, I want these responders to be heard AND I want to respond to what they are saying AND I want to invite them to respond back if they would like to provide any scriptural support to their beliefs.
I will put their replies in red also.
The first fellow calls himself artman. He actually sent two similar replies probably because the first one was blocked so he tried again;
“Thanks for the idea of "thy kingdom come". To be involved in the invitation for the Lords return was a splendid idea. To read others of like minded, thought provoking testimonies helped the prayer go humbly through the heavens. It was a peiceful moment to end a great day. FYI-I just heard that Pres. Monson is from the tribe of Levi. That would explain maybe his calling at 24 to a bishop. Can anyone disprove this. I would like to be set straight. If not maybe he is the "mighty" one in Sec. 65.”
I have been praying and pleading for God to send His son to stop the wickedness and fulfill his promises. The work that I do sheds light to some dark workings of the advisary. See D&C 123:9-10,12,13-17. At times I wish I didn't know what my friends have endured. I am tired of the denial of authorities, saying these things are a figment of their imagination. I know more than I lead on. These are a sign of the times. We need to be of good cheer as the Prophet asked. My prayer is with you tonite. Thankyou for the invite. The dreams that I have been blessed with are not unique, but none the less important. Many have had the same dream. The spirt told to be silent because no one is listening. Its a burden to watch them go on ingoring the signs. It was hard to have Conference over. You do know what tribe Pres. Monson is from? He was 24 when he was made bishop. My info may be wrong. But I just learned this yesterday. Could he be the "Mighty" one in Section 65? I am not a scholar, but I am teachable".
Artman, I am aware of the rumor going around that President Monson is of the tribe of Levi. I have no clue if there is any truth to it. It is interesting that he didn’t go on a mission and that he was only 22 when they made him a Bishop. As to him being the one that is Mighty in section 65, on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most likely and 1 being the least likely, I would give it a ZERO.
If you read my interpretation of section 65 on the next post it will become clear to you why.
The next person that replied and got blocked by the Watcher calls himself FabledSog
FabledSog has emailed me privately and given me some very interesting information which I may share at a later time. For now, here is part of what he posted in his reply;
“I'll be praying as well
Some of them might already be in our midst.And we know them not, waiting like sleeping giants.”
FabledSog I think is implying that the servants could be among us right now and simply not revealing who they are. He may also be implying that anyone of us could be one of the servants through the principle of transmigration.
Having written in previous replies and posts that I believe it is very possible that John the Baptist is the transmigration of Elijah the Prophet, I can’t hardly say that this speculation is not a possibility. HOWEVER on a scale of 1 to 10, I would give the possibility about a 2. Again the reasons for my belief on this will be obvious in the interpretation of section 65 which will be posted later.
The next person didn’t want to reveal himself. He obviously is a Mormon Fundamentalist or at least has leanings towards those beliefs;
“Hey Dan! MJ Says: Great to see others praying for deliverance! Pray with all our hearts! The Lords prayer refers to the REAL NEC (New and Everlasting Covenant)... preparing for and building up Zion... the Kingdom of God on Earth with him and his angels among us. First a people, then the place. Don't forget, the servant will be a man... so that MAY refer to being any one of us (most likely someone who is a decendent of Joseph Smith) endowed with the fullness of the priesthood... so our challenge for us is to personlly seek the Face of God and help others do the same. Another good sign will be that he will have the fruit of such PH... he will be performing miracles that which Moses, Nephi, 3rd Nephi, Alma, Amulek, Joseph Jr, etc performed.”
Again we have someone who seems to feel that anyone of us could be the transmigration of Joseph or Sidney... or perhaps they just feel that mortals will take over from here and we don't need the first laborers of the last kingdom to return.
I am guessing that when Anonymous says the Lords prayer refers to the “real” New and Everlasting Covenant, he is referring to the Spiritual Wife Doctrine as contained in section 132 and in the variations of that commandment that JS and BY and others lived.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the doctrine that you must have multiple wives taught in section 132 and the modified Spiritual Wife doctrine that was lived in Nauvoo and Utah in the early days are simply not consistent with the doctrine of Christ and the Law of Zion taught in the four standard works.
Furthermore, once a person comes to a knowledge of just how real and complete the Kirtland apostasy was PRIOR to the revealing and living of the Spiritual Wife doctrine, and once someone comprehends the correct interpretation of the allegory in Jacob which also makes it clear that only a small amount of “good fruit” was harvested from the foundation movement PRIOR to the introduction of the Spiritual Wife doctrines, it is “GAME OVER” for the Spiritual Wife Doctrine as a viable true doctrine.
In light of the allegory informing us that only a small amount of good fruit was harvested in the early years, it is interesting that of the few people identified in modern revelation as having been reserved by the Lord for the upcoming season, NONE of them lived the so-called higher law of Spiritual Wife Doctrine;
“That when he shall finish his work I may areceive him unto myself, even as I did my servant David Patten, who is with me at this time, and also my servant Edward Partridge, and also my aged servant Joseph Smith, Sen., who sitteth cwith Abraham at his right hand, and blessed and holy is he, for he is mine. D&C 124: 19, 130
Additionally, if the Spiritual Wife doctrine was true, Joseph Smith would have publicly taught it and the account of Jesus visiting the Nephites and teaching them the higher law of consecration would also have included it.
Having said that, I invite Dan’s friend, or MJ and anyone else to prove the Spiritual Wife Doctrine using the scriptures. Send your best argument in a reply and I will post it on my blog..
I am going to end this post with the following reply left by NEPT that was just posted in the comments section while I was writing this post. I love what he is saying because it captures the very essence of prayer. If we are being led by the spirit, we will be told what to pray for, just as Joseph Smith received the dedicatory prayer in section 109 by revelation and the petition for the kingdom to go forth in section 65 by revelation. This is one of the ways that the Holy Ghost acts as an intercessor;
“I think there is a heckuva lot about prayer that we can learn if we "sup" on 3 Nephi 19, but one verse that really sticks out to me is twenty-four...
24 And it came to pass that when Jesus had thus prayed unto the Father, he came unto his disciples, and behold, they did still continue, without ceasing, to pray unto him; and they did not multiply many words, for it was given unto them what they should pray, and they were filled with desire.
Although I'm sure you know who "gave unto them what they should pray", a related scripture spells it out neatly for us...
He that asketh in the Spirit asketh according to the will of God (D&C 46:30);
Have you ever wondered why it should be given to us by the Spirit what we should pray? Is it because there are times when our true needs are ambiguous, even clouded by our OWN desires? Revisiting the previous verse from 3 Nephi 19, we are told that the disciples "were filled with desire" as they prayed. It wasn't until they were blessed with the Spirit that the Lord's desires became theirs. Now we understand the following admonition from the Lord much better...
Be not ye therefore like unto [the heathen, who use vain repetitions,]: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
If Father knows what we need, then I think it is quite reasonable to follow the example of Christ and pray for those things he has instructed. Furthermore, as we do so, the scriptures are plain that the Spirit will dictate how we should pray. Heck, we might just learn something about prophecy, better yet, ourselves, in the whole process!
--I make here the obvious interjection that we must study the word of God in our minds and hearts, lest the same result befall us that did Oliver Cowdery (he took no thought, save it was to ask). But I'm satisfied that most of this group united in prayer has diligently searched in order to understand the state of the kingdom of God on earth and to recognize that the angels are waiting to come down and cleanse the land of Zion.--
In short, if we "want [our] prayers to be real and not contrived," then we should "hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray."