Wednesday, March 25, 2009

The Allegory Part One

I now want to begin going over Jacob 5 in more detail


While I was working on this post, I heard an email come in. It was a reply to the allegory post on this blog from NEPT.


When I read his reply I about fell on the floor.


I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. He totally nailed several parts of the allegory that I was so anxious to reveal in this post.


Part of me wanted to hug him for his astute observations… part of me wanted to slap him around a little for stealing my thunder!


I loved how he picked up on the fact that the servants were called in the 2nd watch to eventually go forth in the 3rd watch in “POWER”. I was discussing that with Mrs Watcher just the other night. You cannot possibly pick something like that out unless the doctrine of the three watches has really begun to sink in.


It is so exciting and exhilarating to pick up hidden treasures in the scriptures and to have someone else verify, from their own independent study that they are seeing the same thing.


Anyway, thanks for the great reply NEPT. Keep it up and I may need to start blocking your comments when you steel my thunder, otherwise, people will think I you are the little man behind the curtain…. LOL.


I am not going to cover every verse in micro detail in the following posts on this topic because this post would become a book if I did.


I am simply going to pick out some parts of some of the really significant verses to drive home just how profoundly accurate and detailed this allegory is in proving the three watches doctrine AND in proving that the gospel went from the gentiles to the Jews very soon after the church was restored during the second watch AND in proving that an intercessory act similar to the one Moses made in behalf of the Children of Israel anciently, was repeated in the second watch.


There will be other amazing observations that come out of this as well for those who have eyes to see them.


In short, Jacob 5 is going to provide a 2nd witness to many of the astounding declarations this crazy heretic has been documenting in this blog and in some of the other articles that I have written on the LDSAnarchy site.


Jacob 5 is absolutely pregnant with incredible key word and key word phrases and you are going to be blown away when you see and compare the phrases from modern revelation as they are matched up with phrases in the allegory.


IF YOU HAVE READ AND UNDERSTOOD THE CONCEPTS AND SCRIPTURES I HAVE PREVIOUSLY WRITTEN ABOUT, YOU ARE GOING TO REALLY ENJOY AND REJOICE IN AND BE EDIFIED BY WHAT YOU READ IN THIS EXPLANATION OF THE ALLEGORY IN JACOB.


God is good. He blesses those who love and study and search his words with greater spiritual insight. I know you will be blessed for studying this allegory.


I have decided to divide this topic of the allegory into various parts instead of finishing what I am working on and then posting the whole thing.


I have been inspired to do this by NEPT.


I realize that if I wait until I have written everything I want to show before posting it, NEPT will have already pointed out everything I want to point out in the reply sections!


So here we go with part one of the Allegory post.


I am actually not going to begin showing the significant parts of the verses in chronological order in this first part of this topic because I want to lay a foundation for those who may need it.


Before we break down and begin dissecting the allegory, I need to drive home a very important point and I need to give a brief summary of how the united kingdom of Israel became divided and how the original olive tree multiplied into various branches growing in various parts of the vineyard.


I am guessing that probably 95% of Christian religions and 95% of people who consider themselves to be Christians in the USA do not really consider themselves to be literal Israel… Jews, Judah, Joseph, etc.


There are maybe 5% that do consider themselves to be literal descendants of Israel..


A very important theology to understand before taking on the allegory in Jacob is that of British Israelism.



"British Israelism, (sometimes called Anglo-Israelism) is the claim that people of Western European descent are also the direct lineal descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, and it is often accompanied by the belief that the British Royal Family is directly descended from the line of King David."


Since there may or may not be a distinction between the portion of the Kingdom of Israel that became scattered among the gentile nations and the portion of Israel referred to as the “ten lost tribes”, I am going to alter the above definition to state “kingdom of Israel scattered among the nations” instead of “Ten Lost Tribe”. Whether there is a distinction between the two terms or not is a topic for another day.



Herbert W. Armstrong (31 July 1892 - 16 January 1986) is perhaps one of the most prolific modern promoters of British Israelism. He founded the Worldwide Church of God. To his credit, he understood that the Caucasian pilgrims that came to America from England were literal descendants of the House of Israel.


It is very important that you do not confuse British Israelism with the Christian Identity Movement which, has manipulated the doctrine of British Israelism and spawned numerous white supremest and religious racial hate groups.


There are several interesting sites that biblically document how the Kingdom of Israel became scattered and mingled among the nations. They are trying to open peoples eyes to the realization that the gentiles who have migrated to the United States from Europe and other areas of the world are the literal descendants of the house of Israel.


Most of the best and most accurate non LDS prophecy scholars are those that believe in British Israelism because they have a better understanding of the place of America and Americans in latter day prophecy.


In Protestant chat boards on prophecy it is not uncommon to see the following questions; “Why isn’t America ever mentioned in prophecy?” or “Why doesn’t America seem to play a more prominent role in latter day prophecy?”


Is seems strange to them that the greatest most powerful nation in the world is seldom if ever mentioned in the prophesies pertaining to the end time. To them the topic of America in prophesy is mysteriously missing from the prophecies of Isaiah, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. They will continue to be mystified until they return to the knowledge of who they are and what their tribal Israelite heritage is.


Until our protestant brothers and sisters understand that much of Latter day Israel has been gathered to America and that the “JerUSAlem” and “Israel” mentioned in last days prophesy has reference to the land of America and the people thereof they will remain clueless when reading the prophesies.


Of course, the revelations God gave to Joseph Smith prove conclusively that the general underlying doctrine of British Israelism is in fact true! The gentiles that migrated to America from England and other European countries are the literal descendants of Israel.


As Mormons, many of us have a surface understanding of this doctrine because, among other reasons, we have patriarchal blessings that identify which tribe of Israel we are from, yet we still suffer from a serious disconnect when reading about Israel in the scriptures.


We often think of literal Israel in the last days as being someone other than us… those Israelite's or Jews are always those people over there…. etc.


..and all of the scriptures that talk about apostate Israel in the latter days certainly must be speaking about some other group… after all, were the true church!


When the prophets point out that ALL Israel will be partially blinded until the dispensation of the fulness of times, that certainly couldn’t include us!


Right?


Wrong!


For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.” Rom. 11: 25


The term Jew can be very confusing in the scriptures because sometimes it is referring to those who are literal descendants of Judah yet other times it refers to the House of Israel in general;


“…for the very cause that he shall be rejected of the Jews, or of the house of Israel…. And I did rehearse unto them the words of Isaiah, who spake concerning the restoration of the Jews, or of the house of Israel…” http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_ne/15/17,20#17


From the above passages, it is obvious that the Book of Mormon sometimes uses the terms Jews and house of Israel synonymously.


Using the broader, general definition of the word Jew, the Nephites were Jews and all latter day Saints are Jews.


(Of course, as I have pointed out in other articles, there are a lot of Latter day Saints that are Jews in the more specific definition of the term… they are literally from Judah…. this will be verified in the allegory as well)


This is critically important to understand. The reason that many fail to connect and identify the Latter day Saints accurately into the allegory is because they are in denial as to just how literal our Israelite heritage is. We are very much part of the Israel that is prophesied about.


The fact that we lost our tribal identity and mingled among the gentile nations does not take away our lineage, although the allegory distinguishes us as the “wild” branches instead of the “natural” branches. Nevertheless, I am going to show you that even the natural branches became “wild”.


Some Latter day Saints try to identify the LDS restoration movement beginning at verse 70 instead of back in verse 29. Of course this does not fit because verse 70 is speaking about the 3rd watch when the servants come back and successfully implements temporal and spiritual equality and establish Zion. (The term "foundation movement" is more appropriate and more scriptural, but we may be having visitors that do not have a foundation for what we are speaking about)


So let me just review a few scriptures wherein the God of Israel came right out and Identifies us Gentiles as Israel… because if you don’t get this concept, you will not understand how verse 29 applies directly to the LDS restoration movement and you won’t get the amazingly literal, accurate and profound prophecies contained in the allegory that pertain to all of us participating in the LDS foundation movement;


In section 103 the Lord God of Israel says to the Latter day Saints;


“For ye are the children of Israel”


He was not just speaking figuratively or allegorically or spiritually or metaphysically, nor with tongue in cheek, he was speaking literally. We latter day Saints ARE the Children of Israel.


This knowledge alone should cause us to read Deuteronomy 28-33 about 500 times with rejoicing and trepidation because those chapters nail LDS church history and the future events pertaining to our history right between the eyes. They, like the allegory in Jacob provide a vivid clarity to what happened and what is going to happen to the latter day Saints.


We are the literal offspring of the Children of Israel that Moses dealt with and we are the recipients of the promises, blessings and cursing that Moses places upon their heads.


They contain, in a sense, a patriarchal blessing pertaining to latter day Israel. They contain the blessing and the cursing that we are experiencing. They foretell our apostasy and our eventual redemption!


Section 109 goes much further than 103 in identifying us as literal Israel and gives a much more detailed analysis of who we are and how all of the other branches of Israel interrelate to us in the last days. It shows that all of the branches of Israel revolve around and are connected with the Sons of Jacob in the LDS Restoration movement who are identified with the Gentiles in the latter days!


Indeed, when Joseph and Oliver were given the keys of the gathering of Israel in section 110, they were given the keys to gather ALL OF ISRAEL… ALL OF THE BRANCHES OF ISRAEL! Remember this as we review the Allegory.


Ok, now, a brief general summary of the United Kingdom of Israel and how it became divided into the two primary Kingdoms (from which smaller branches broke off of.




1- The Kingdom of Israel was United with all 12 tribes of Israel during the reign of Saul, David and Solomon.


2- The Kingdom of Israel became divided during the rule of Rehoboam, the son of Solomon, wherein approximately 10 tribes became the Kingdom of Israel and two Tribes became the Kingdom of Judah.


3- Eventually, the Kingdom of Israel angered the Lord and so he cast them out of this sight. They became scattered among the gentiles nations. The scriptures refer them as the OUTCASTS OF ISRAEL. (Remnants of these tribes end up among the Gentiles in England and other European nations in the latter days.)


4- Eventually, the Kingdom of Judah angered the Lord and “he dispersed them among the nations”. They are referred to as the “Dispersed of Judah”. Unlike the remnants of the Kingdom of Israel, who lost their tribal identity, they retained their tribal identity when they were dispersed.


5- Prior to the meridian of time when Christ came to his earthly ministry, God gathered the dispersed of Judah back to the Jerusalem in the Old World and established them as a people.


6- The Lord allowed the remnants of the Kingdom of Israel to remain in a scattered condition during his earthly ministry.


7- When John the Baptist and Christ came to the earth, the preparatory Gospel was offered to the Jews (Kingdom of Judah). As a collective body of people, they rejected it.


8- Then the Fulness of the Gospel is then taken to the Gentiles (remnants of the Kingdom of Israel still scattered among and intermarried with the gentiles)


9- The taking of the Gospel to the Gentiles is interrupted by the great apostasy caused by the martyrdom of most of the apostles and the rejection of the Gospel by a wicked and perverse world. The Gentile Church of Christ goes into a complete and total apostasy within a short time.


10- According to the prophecies of Christ, within a generation of time after the crucifixion, the Jews were destroyed as a nation, smitten and scattered. Those that lived through the chastisement were dispersed once again but this time, the true Jews that were scattered also lost their tribal identity just as the Kingdom of Israel had. As we shall see in the allegory this natural branch of Israel also became “wild” just like the Gentiles did.


It is incredibly important to understand the above ten point summary pertaining to the Kingdom of Israel scenario. It sets the stage for understanding what the allegory in Jacob is speaking about.


Just prior to the restoration of the Church in 1830, we have a strong branch of the Olive Tree composed of remnants from Israel who had mingled among the Gentiles nations and then migrated to America. The very first converts to the restored church were primarily descendants of the Kingdom of Israel. Their pioneer forefathers had came over to the latter day promised land of America from England.


These gentiles are remnants of the Kingdom of Israel that became wild when they were cast out of the sight of the Lord in Old Testament times!


But here is another incredible mystery that few people pick up on;


The so called Jews that began gathering to the Old World Jerusalem in recent decades are not the real descendants of the Jews that are spoken of in prophecy.


The Anarchist did an incredible job of documenting many of the scriptures in the Book of Mormon that address the scattering and gathering of the Jews in one of his recent articles.


Here is an except from his article;


"For the past few months, I’ve been searching the scriptures an awful lot, especially the prophecies concerning the last days and the fulness of times.


In the last week (January 7-14), as I read the scriptures that dealt with the scattering and gathering of Israel, I was also listening to the news we’re getting of the conflict happening in Gaza and, both being in my mind, I began to hold up the State of Israel to prophetic scrutiny, meaning that I compared the State of Israel to the prophecies that were before me to see if it fulfilled them.


The conclusion I came to was that its existence did not fulfill prophecy, both the prophecies concerning the scattering of the Jews, as well as the restoration (gathering) of the Jews to the lands of their inheritance….


…So, if you are among the membership that believes the State of Israel was established by God and fulfills prophecy, I invite you to take up your scriptures alone and to leave aside the Christian and LDS commentaries. Let nothing but the Spirit and the scriptures guide you and see if you still come to the same conclusion.


To help you in that end, let me list some Book of Mormon prophecies that deal with the scattering and gathering of the Jews. You may start to see an emerging pattern once you take a look..."


The Jews who had been destroyed and dispersed into the nations in 73AD, according to the allegory, were natural branches that had become wild also. This means that they lost their tribal identity.


Remnants of the Jews who had rejected the gospel in the meridian of time were mingled among the Christian European nations just waiting to hear the gospel message when the Church was restored to the earth through Joseph Smith.


When the Gentile Saints failed to redeem Zion and live the higher law at the appointed time in 1836, it was time for the gospel to go from the wild branch Gentiles to the wild branch Jews who were largely Christian protestants living among the European nations!


Shortly after the apostasy in Kirtland, Joseph Smith said, “the Lord has revealed to me that “SOMETHING new must be done for the Salvation of the Church” he then sent the twelve apostles and other missionaries to open up foreign missions to take the gospel to those oversees. Many of those coming over to Nauvoo and later to Utah from Europe are actually remnants of the Kingdom of Judah who had begun to Believe in Christ..


Notice the following verse in the allegory


“…it will soon become ripened that it may be cast into the fire except we should do SOMETHING for it to preserve it….”


Joseph Smith knew he must do SOMETHING to preserve the Church. The allegory speaks of a time when the branch will become ripened and cast into the fire if SOMETHING wasn’t done to preserve it.


You may have noticed in a previous article I wrote that after the Gentiles rejected the fullness of the Gospel that it was the preparatory gospel that went to the latter day Jews that began gathering in to the Church after the Kirtland Temple was defiled and the Saints were forced to flee Kirtland…


..perhaps you felt that perhaps the latter day Jews were being punished with the lesser light because the Gentiles rejected the Gospel, but did you notice that back in the 1st watch it was the preparatory gospel that was given to the Jews before the fulness of the Gospel went to the Gentiles? This has to do with promises and cursings that took place in Old Testament times pertaining to the tribe of Judah… perhaps we will cover that sometime…


I know this concept of the gospel having gone from the gentiles to the Jews way back during the early part of the 2nd watch probably seems very strange to you, but I suggest that you look at the following verse found in section 45


And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel.


Most D&C commentaries will tell you that verse was speaking about the gospel light shining forth back when the Church was restored in 1830. (the next verse is conveniently not addressed in some commentaries because of the obvious negative implications)


I am going to suggest that if you read verses 26-35 very carefully, in context, using your key word cross referencing skills, you will realize that although verses 28 and 29 provide a vivid TYPE of what happened in the 2nd watch, the literal reference has to do with the 3rd watch.


Those passages are speaking about the last generation of probationary time! They are speaking about the last generation that Christ was speaking to his disciples about in Matthew 24. They are speaking about the time when the 3rd watch opens up and the Marvelous Work and a Wonder begins, when the stone rolls forth!


That being the case, how can the times of the gentiles come in during the 3rd watch if, as the three watches diagram indicates, that the 2nd watch leads right up to the opening of the 3rd watch?


Wouldn't we still be in the times of the Gentiles from the 2nd watch?


NO! We are living during the times of the Jews right now.


This makes sense once you realize that the times of the Gentiles that opened up in the 2nd watch closed when the Gentiles rejected the gospel and then it was taken to the Jews.


The current LDS Church is very possibly predominantly a Jewish Church in the literal sense.. for several reasons that don't need to be discussed at this time!


Now that a new dispensation is about to open up with the gospel going first to the Gentiles… it is time for the “times of the Gentiles” to open again.


Notice verses 24 &25 in section 45;


And this I have told you concerning Jerusalem; and when that day shall come, shall a remnant [of the Jews from the Kingdom of Judah] be scattered among all nations;


But they shall be gathered again; but they shall remain [scattered] until the times of the Gentiles [in the second watch] be fulfilled.”


Incredibly, the Savior was telling his disciples in Matt 24, and also the Saints of the restoration movement, via section 45, that the remnants of Judah that would be smitten and scattered after the siege of 73 AD would eventually be gathered together in the last days after the church would be restored to the earth again, BUT NOT UNTIL AFTER THE GENTILES REJECT THE GOSPEL AND BRING THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES IN THE 2nd WATCH TO AND END!


That is exactly what happened when the Gentile church rejected the gospel by failing to redeem Zion and failing to live Gospel Law at the appointed time on Sept 11 1836.


This is why, even though most traditional LDS scholars are talking about how it is about time for the times of the gentiles to come to an end so that the gospel can go to the Jews and then usher in the Second Coming.... I am waiting for the times of the Jews to come to an end so that the times of the Gentiles can come in again!


And so you see, when Joseph Smith said something new must be done for the salvation of the Church, he was declaring that the times of the gentiles had come to an end back in September 11th of 1836 and he was declaring the beginning the times of the Jews in the second part of the 2nd watch.


We are now approaching the time of the 3rd watch. The times of the Gentiles is going to open up again. You must understand this obscure doctrine to get the full benefit of what we are going to be studying in the allegory!


If you can wrap your mind around the significance of what happened when the foreign missions were opened up following the defilement of the Kirtland Temple, the allegory will open up to you in a much greater way.


In Part Two of The Allegory we will begin looking at some of the significant keys provided therein.


I wonder if someone is going to steal my thunder again before I publish part two of the allegory?


LOL

13 comments:

NEPT said...

I'm sorry for pilfering any of your thunder OWIW, but I doubt my comments make as loud of a rumble as yours do. What is the punishment for those who break the 8th commandment anyhow? Please don't cast me out!

----

But in all seriousness, how do you distinguish between the preparatory gospel taught among the Jews and the fulness taken to the Gentiles during the 1st watch? I will assume that the defining moment was the day of Pentecost, when the gift of the Holy Ghost was confirmed among the saints. Certainly Christ had foreshadowed that moment as a time when they would be endowed, and if I am not mistaken, it was from that moment on that the apostles went forth in POWER performing the same miracles the Savior had performed while among them. Every time I read Acts I am struck by the astounding change in the apostles before and after the day of Pentecost; from weak to bold, doubting to believing, blind to discerning...amazing.

If the gift of the Holy Ghost is the point of differentiation, and we, the saints of today, really are a Jewish nation as you suggest, then it makes all the more sense that we should be living a preparatory gospel for the moment before the time of the Gentiles is ushered in once again. It really makes so much sense when you look at the pattern that is delineated over and over again in the scriptures.

On a different note, I vaguely remember reading about the hypothesis that Jeremiah fled up to Europe, specifically to modern-day Ireland, to escape the oncoming Assyrian invasion after he was released from prison (or something similar to this scenario). Might this have anything to do with British Israelism?

Someone who is watching said...

NEPT

"...how do you distinguish between the preparatory gospel taught among the Jews and the fulness taken to the Gentiles during the 1st watch? I will assume that the defining moment was the day of Pentecost, when the gift of the Holy Ghost was confirmed among the saints. Certainly Christ had foreshadowed that moment as a time when they would be endowed, and if I am not mistaken, it was from that moment on that the apostles went forth in POWER performing the same miracles the Savior had performed while among them. Every time I read Acts I am struck by the astounding change in the apostles before and after the day of Pentecost; from weak to bold, doubting to believing, blind to discerning...amazing."


Bingo

You asked, then answered your own question.

Those who are actively enjoying the fulness of the Gospel are Those who are enjoying the baptism of fire and the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

They are showing forth the signs mentioned in the scriptures that follow those who believe.... and they are entering into the gate

Younger Dude said...

NEPT, OWIW,

This stuff is so fascinating to think about.

In context of this post, these scriptures don't make sense to me D&C 45:51-53

51 And then shall the aJews blook upon me and say: What are these cwounds in thine hands and in thy feet?
52 Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was awounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was bcrucified. I am the cSon of God.
53 And then shall they aweep because of their iniquities; then shall they blament because they cpersecuted their dking.

These verses seem to describe a Jewish people unaware of their Saviors first coming. Could it be referring to other other Jews who were not gathered with the LDS restoration movement? Or are the Jews gathered to the LDS church going to weep because they realize that they are the literal descendants of the people that crucified Jesus? Whatever the case, these verses are used by the LDS mainstream to reinforce the view that modern Israel is home to the literal Jews.

Any help on these verses would be appreciated.

Someone who is watching said...

Younger Dude

Your question is a great one.. You are holding the doctrines that I am declaring to the fire to see if they fit AND if they provide a deeper or different explanation to some of the prophesies we take for granted.

That is Good!

However, there are a few topics I prefer to not expound on in detail.

The reason I am even talking about the literal Jewishness of the Modern Church in the detail that I am is because this needs to be understood to comprehend what the allegory is speaking about.

I feel that God is finally allowing some of this information to come out because it is just about time for the 3rd watch to begin.

Nevertheless, there are certain things that God may share with us that we need to be prudent about so that the events of prophecy may move forward without hindrance..

I made the following claim;

"And so you see, when Joseph Smith said something new must be done for the salvation of the Church, he was declaring that the times of the gentiles had come to an end back in September 11th of 1836 and he was declaring the beginning the times of the Jews in the second part of the 2nd watch."

If my claim is true, one might ask, "Why didn't Joseph Smith make it clear what was happening with regard to the transition from the Gentiles to the Jews?"

I am suggesting that Joseph Smith was intentionally being cryptic.

He once said;

I can keep a secret until doomsday"

He was given information during the first vision that he never revealed publicly.

He was given information during the vision known as section 76 that he never revealed publically.

He was given information during the events contained in section 112 that he never revealed publically.

Now, getting back to my claim that Joseph SMith was being cryptic about the significance of the transition from Gentile to Jew...

He was being cryptic because the Lord had entrusted him with certain secrets that he had to keep inside his bosom.

Dude.. you are on to something really big..

Can you keep a secret?

Welcome to the twilight zone.

NEPT said...

Dude,

I understand OWIW's reluctance to share some of the mysteries of God for which he has so diligently sought, but I think there may also be a less mysterious answer to your question--you know, kind of like the first layer of a parable. Feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong Mr. Watcher!

If you take a look at the logo at the top of the Three Watches blogsite, you'll notice that the gospel goes to the Gentiles first, then to the Jews during the 2nd watch. But it AGAIN goes to the Gentiles THEN the Jews in the 3rd watch. You might have picked up on this in the Jacob 5 allegory and succeeding discussion on this site.

Forgive me for the lack of scriptural references in the following explanation, I'll try to back myself up later. But it is my understanding that the elect will begin to be gathered during the times of the Gentiles of the 3rd watch in order to begin to redeem Zion. It seems that Christ will appear in power and in glory at the moment those who fight against Zion are prevailing in "Jerusalem" and will vanquish his enemies. Now, who are those Jews in ransacked "Jerusalem" that do not recognize the Messiah as the crucified Christ? I suspect that many will be church members that were unaware that Christ was laboring WITH his servants in the vineyard and had already come in the 3rd watch as a thief in the night, but they had esteemed him as naught and they followed another they believed to be a true messenger. We know that the church members will be faced with an enormous test...might this be it?

However, the reclamation of the remainder of Israel will take place in earnest AFTER the Lord comes in power and in glory and then the gospel will go to the remainder of the Jews. Therefore, I imagine there will be many in this group who are not expecting Christ to be their Messiah, and are caught by surprise as they are gathered. You could call this explanation the pragmatic solution.

But I'm no expert.

NEPT

Someone who is watching said...

Great observation NEPT

Younger Dude said...

Thanks NEPT and OWIW for the help. I go farther down the rabbit hole every day, but I usually have little regret for the works based world I left behind.

NEPT you said:
"Now, who are those Jews in ransacked "Jerusalem" that do not recognize the Messiah as the crucified Christ? I suspect that many will be church members that were unaware that Christ was laboring WITH his servants in the vineyard and had already come in the 3rd watch as a thief in the night, but they had esteemed him as naught and they followed another they believed to be a true messenger."

After I posted my first comment, I started to think about the possibility you just described. It reminds me of D&C 38:7

7 But behold, verily, verily, I say unto you that mine aeyes are upon you. I am in your bmidst and ye cannot csee me;

After I first learned about the third watch, I read this chapter imagining the Lord was speaking to us now and it gave me the chills. D&C 38 does have to do with the third watch as well, right?

Anyway, another scripture came to mind Luke 24:14-15,31

14 And it came to pass,that while they communed together, and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

15 But their eyes were holden, or covered, that they could not know him.

31 And they said one to another, Did not our hearts burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

So I guess since Christ says that he will come in three watches before he shows himself with power and glory, and since there is already a scriptural precedent for Christ walking with people that do not know him, and since Christ can cover the eyes of his own apostles if he wishes, there is a real possibility that he could be laboring here on earth and members of the church would not know it. That is just insane, but definitely seems to have scriptural precedent.

There is a sense of sad and poetic irony that the majority of the Lord's people may be looking for Him to come with power and great glory, just like the people were at His first coming, and because of that, they might not recognize His presence in the third watch. I have always felt like the church is more like the early Jews than members would care to admit.

Could we really miss Him again as a church? That would certainly provide an explanation for the confusion and sadness when we see the prints in His hands.

And also, was He laboring among the people in the second watch? Or do his appearances in the temple and to others constitute his second watch visit?

Anyway, don't worry about answering my questions, I am kind of musing out loud, and things generally make more sense the more I read my scrips.

OWIW, in reference to Joseph Smith you said:

"He was being cryptic because the Lord had entrusted him with certain secrets that he had to keep inside his bosom."

A few days before I found your material, I was browsing around different LDS blogs. I came across http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com and found the personal testimony of the author pretty intriguing. He had been reading a D&C commentary and wanted to know if the things he had read in the commentary were true. After a lot of prayer and fasting, the answer he received from the Lord was -

"No, the book you just read did not contain everything that happened in church history. A lot of it was left out. It was written with the intent to encourage faith. You will discover many more things in the years to come. But know this, whatever you learn, you can always rely on this one thing: Joseph did not tell everything he knew and neither can you. Some things you can only receive in faith-filled prayer."

The Lord seems to be trying to expose me to the idea that not all is as it seems, and that the future will definitely not unfold the way I had once thought.
I can only imagine the kind of secrets Joseph Smith keeps...

NEPT said...

Dude, I really appreciate your latest musings. I've benefited so much from the "burnings in my bosom" that I've received lately, and reading your post was no exception. Although you, OWIW (and Mrs. Watcher), and I are only "gathered" via the internet, our discussions bring to mind D&C 6:32 (Matt 18:20)...

Verily, verily, I say unto you, as I said unto my disciples, where two or three are gathered together in my name, as touching one thing, behold, there will I be in the midst of them—even so am I in the midst of you.

Thanks guys.

Someone who is watching said...

Amen, Amen Amen and Amen.

BTW

I know of several others who are participating silently and others who are sending emails to me.

And according to tracking software, there are quite a few others who are at least listening in... and pondering what is being said.

Hell Raising Love Monster said...

You mentioned section 103. I decided to read it, and I saw where it says we are the children of Israel. It works out chiastically. and plain as plain can be, and I am sure you already know about it, it says,

"But verily I say unto you, I have decreed that your brethren which have been scattered shall return to the lands of their inheritances, and shall build up the waste places of Zion."

The only way that can happen is if they come back from the dead, or reborn into a different probationary state.

I am reading and studying this. Thanks for the contribution.

Love Monster

Hell Raising Love Monster said...

Speaking more about what Dude is talking about, there is also in Section 103,

"Therefore, let not your hearts faint, for I say NOT unto you as I said unto your fathers: Mine angel shall go up before you, but not my presence. But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, AND ALSO MY PRESENCE, and IN TIME ye shall possess the goodly land."

Younger Dude said...

I read Jacob 5 while in sacrament meeting today and wow... stuff started sticking out in a way that I thought was too plain to be true! The third watch doctrine is like putting on a cleaner pair of glasses. Talk about a key to understanding scripture!

I mean, I know we have been talking a lot about the allegory, but I hadn't yet read it wearing third watch goggles. I have no idea how correct my deductions were as I read the allegory, but it is exciting to think its possible to understand, so I am so stoked for the upcoming posts.

Anyway, I love reaping the benefits of OWIW's hard work, lol.

TruthSeekerToo said...

Wonderful things to read! The scriptures, article and comments.

I wonder to myself why some of us are being inspired/called/pulled towards these truths. My only conclusion is that it is time. Time for some to SEE.

OWIW thank you so much for putting a date stamp on the taking of the gospel from the gentiles to the jews on Sept 11, 1836. For some reason I really needed to know when the gentile church began to apostatize (as a group). I know you've written about it previously, but the date didn't sink in until now.

I feel like the more I learn the more I need to learn.