Tuesday, October 7, 2008

"He was born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.."

The Lord has told us that the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (hereafter referred to as the JST) contains hidden things pertaining to the events of the last days. This information is necessary to prepare us for the events of the end times.
The Lord has also told us that it also contains mysteries pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
In my last post we reviewed how important the JST of the Bible is by providing scriptures and historical documentation.
We have observed how the JST reveals that Christ comes to the earth, in secret, three different times, as a thief in the night prior to his coming in Glory and that after the 1st Watch in the meridian of time, Joseph Smith was given his 1st commission in the 2nd Watch and finally, his 2nd Commission will take place in the 3rd and final Watch. We have observed numerous other jewels out of the JST that give further clarity to the three watches and how the Marvelous Work takes place in the 3rd watch (3rd dispensation)
I thought it might be fitting to take a break from the numbered evidences of the Marvelous Work and give an example of one of the many mysteries that are revealed in the JST.
The topic I want to address has to do with the Godhood of Jesus Christ during his earthly ministry.
The doctrine that I am going to discuss in this post is a very sacred one that enables us to have greater faith in the power of the atonement... but it may offend a few people. I hope you will let go of the traditions of your fathers and search the information being presented by the power of the Holy Ghost.
Years ago I read a book entitled "The Mortal Messiah". As is implied in the title, it presented the view that Christ was a mortal man just like the rest of us. The premise of the book pretty much agreed with the protestant view of Christ in my opinion.
According Webster's Dictionary "Mortal" means, "subject to death" and is also synonymous with "human".
In this book the author, referring to Christ stated that-
"When the time came for him to gain his Mortal body and undergo the probationary experiences of Mortality, he was born on this earth. He came here to dwell as a Mortal, subjected to the testing experiences that are the common lot of all mankind. He lived and breathed as all men do ... his experiences were like those of his Israelite kinsmen.... we are left to suppose that every law of Mortal Life applied to the mortal son of the mortal Mary."
As I read those words I got a sick feeling in my stomach. They just weren't resonating with me for some reason. Even the title of the book was offensive to me.
One day, while reading in the Gospel of John I came across the following verses:
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behelf his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1)

That verse bothered me because it didn't make any sense to me that the disciples who believed in Christ were not born of blood nor born of the will of the flesh. Indeed the scriptures continually reiterate that all of the posterity of Adam are born as a result of the will of the flesh and that we all have inherited the mortal and corrupted blood of our father Adam that resulted from the fall.
I wanted to consult the inspired version to see if Joseph Smith gave additional clarification to this verse. Fortunately I had a copy of the JST because this verse is not one of the verses that the RLDS Church had given the LDS permission to use in the footnotes in our version of the Bible.
To my delight and astonishment, Joseph Smith had made a very significant change in these verses:
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

He was born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (JST John 1)
The original and undefiled text of the scriptures had really been speaking of Christ!
He was different from the rest of mankind because he was not born from the act of lust and He did not inherit the corrupted mortal blood from the fall of Adam! This scripture from the JST filled me with light as I read it... It tasted good to me. It made sense to me that Christ condescended to take upon himself flesh from Mary but he did not inherit his blood from a mortal father... and was therefore NOT A MORTAL MAN!
It is MORTAL BLOOD that makes a man MORTAL.
Now that the JST had brought this beautiful mystery to my attention, I wanted additional confirmation from additional sources. So I began searching to see if these verses in the JST were congruent with what the Bible, Book of Mormon and the D&C. Here is the testimony of the Book of Mormon:

"And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people. And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son— The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son— And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. (Mosiah 15)

According to the Book of Mosiah, Jesus Christ was God before and during his earthly ministry! Christ's own words in modern revelation confirm this as well:
"Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—" (D&C 19)
The New Testament concurs with the Godhood of Jesus Christ during his mortal ministry. The Savior himself assures us that because of his Godhood, no man had the power to take his life, rather He chose to lay it down-
"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." (John 10)
Remember the definition of Mortal? A mortal is subject to death. But Christ was not subject to death, death was subject to Christ. No one could take Christ's life from him... he chose to lay it down of himself... and then he had power to take it up again because he has power over death.
Of course the Godhood of Christ is obvious and indisputable in the scriptures, he was the pre-existent God that created this earth.... but this concept that Christ did not have mortal blood coursing through his veins during his earthly ministry was so powerful to me. After all, human blood is what makes us human!
It appears that when we sin, the seeds of sin are transferred info the flesh through the corrupted blood that we inherited from the fall of Adam. But notice how the Book of Mormon verifies what the JST reveals, that Christ did not offer a human sacrifice because he was not human! Indeed, if he had been human, his human blood would not have had the power to atone for the sins of another man!
"And now, behold, I will testify unto you of myself that these things are true. Behold, I say unto you, that I do know that Christ shall come among the children of men, to take upon him the transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone for the sins of the world; for the Lord God hath spoken it. For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else all mankind must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, all are fallen and are lost, and must perish except it be through the atonement which it is expedient should be made. For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for it shall not be a human sacrifice; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice. Now there is not any man that can sacrifice his own blood which will atone for the sins of another. Now, if a man murdereth, behold will our law, which is just, take the life of his brother? I say unto you, Nay." (Alma 34)
It is hard for me to exercise much faith in an atonement offered by a Mortal Messiah. I find it much easier to exercise faith in the atonement of an Infinite and Eternal Messiah, one that had an infinite and eternal blood which had the power to provide an infinite and eternal atonement.
(obviously, the most important reason for understanding this doctrine has to do with giving us greater faith in the infinite atonement of Jesus Christ. However, the implications of this are far reaching. Based on some of the doctrinal heresies taught by Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Heber C. Kimball and other Utah general authorities, who taught that we would all righteous men will become an "Adam" and then a "Christ" and then "The Father" in future worlds, I had come to the following conclusion: That Christ had previously gone through a mortal probation and become a God BEFORE coming to this earth to atone for our sins.


I have now come to believe that the literal explanation given in the Book of Moses, that God created Christ as his first born "only begotten" and that Christ is the savior and creator of all worlds under the direction of God the Father.. 


Furthermore, this doctrine throws an industrial strength wrench in the Mormon fundamentalist belief that Christ was a married polygamist with children during his ministry on this earth... not likely.)

16 comments:

KnowledgeSeeker said...

Just a thought, wouldnt the commandment to marry be a part of fulfilling all righteousness? For in the begining God commanded to multiply and replenish the earth.

Someone who is watching said...

Yes.

However, the point I am attempting to make is that he had previously fulfilled that commandment before condescending to visit the earth in the "form" of a man in the meridian of time to atone for our sins.

Therefore, there was no need for him to keep that commandment AGAIN, a second time.

The same would be true with regard multiplying... having offspring.

My contention is that if indeed the scriptures documented in the post are really saying what I am suggesting that they are saying, then it really doesn't make sense that a GOD who does not have mortal blood flowing through his veins would be having offspring.

Clearly, if he did, his offspring would not have mortal blood in their veins either... they would also be GODS who would be without sin while on this earth. What would be the purpose of that? Is there any scripture to suggest that Christ left a posterity of Gods on this earth?

Yet the scriptures tell us that everyone else has the corrupted and fallen blood inherited from Adam flowing in their veins.

Thank you for visiting and for your observation.

Not entirely put together said...

Someone who is watching, I'm curious of your response to the proposition that Brother Joseph, as the "root of Jesse" (D&C 113 and Isaiah 11), is a literal descendant of the Savior, suggesting that Christ was married and had offspring (Kerry A. Shirts, "Mormon Researched", http://www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/holy.htm). Also, how do you reconcile this post with what the Lord said to the brother of Jared in Ether 3? That is, that He would (at some future time) take upon his self flesh and blood (v. 9), but that which M. Moriancumer saw was the body of His spirit, to be later clothed in flesh when He would appear to His people (v. 16)? Additionally, do you think that a resurrected being could actually lay his life down again, in seeming contrast to what Amulek taught in Alma 11:45, that the resurrection results in the uniting of body and spirit, never to be divided again?

I'm not sure whether I agree or disagree with your argument in this post, but I am curious about your rebuttal. I can say, however, that I genuinely enjoy your posts and keen insight. Your blog is a treasure.

Someone who is watching said...

NEPT

”Someone who is watching, I'm curious of your response to the proposition that Brother Joseph, as the "root of Jesse" (D&C 113 and Isaiah 11), is a literal descendant of the Savior, suggesting that Christ was married and had offspring (Kerry A. Shirts, "Mormon Researched", http://www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/holy.htm).”

I do believe Christ has offspring, but not in the sense most people assume.

Please remember that Christ is the Father of Adam and that Adam had an elect seed originally through Abel and later through Seth… in that sense, there is a Royal lineage and anyone coming through that royal lineage is of the offspring of Christ through Father Adam. That would mean that the great Old Testament Prophets were the offspring of Christ as well those of us late comers.

I think the scriptural evidence I provided in that post is pretty irrefutable the fact that Christ was a God with some type of perfect sinless blood different from the corrupt blood that you and I have.. possibly a terrestrial/paradisiacal blood.. that he was able to take on when he condescended… I don’t know for sure how he did it… it is a mystery we have been told precious little about. If you are struggling with that concept then you are struggling with believing the scriptures.. so come on.. get with the program.

That being the case, if Christ were to have offspring during his ministry in the flesh, they would not be human, they would be Gods too. What would be the purpose of that? They would be without sin as he was.. That is incongruent with the scriptures that tell us that all but Christ have sinned.. Certainly Joseph Smith was among the greatest and holiest of men in his generation yet he was getting chastened continuously by the Lord.

I’ll look at the link you provided when I get home.. I am currently staying at a monastery and borrowing internet in a parking lot…

“Also, how do you reconcile this post with what the Lord said to the brother of Jared in Ether 3? That is, that He would (at some future time) take upon his self flesh and blood (v. 9), but that which M. Moriancumer saw was the body of His spirit, to be later clothed in flesh when He would appear to His people (v. 16)?”

I guess I don’t understand your point here… I agree that Christ took upon himself flesh and blood.. just not the corrupted blood we inherited from Adam.

“Additionally, do you think that a resurrected being could actually lay his life down again, in seeming contrast to what Amulek taught in Alma 11:45, that the resurrection results in the uniting of body and spirit, never to be divided again?”

This would take longer to try to explain. My policy is that if I don’t have the real answer… I make one up.. and sometimes that takes a while to do…

I will say that the topic of that verse is the “mortal body” and how it cannot go through two probations and two deaths in a state of corruption each time. That is the point.. Christ was not a corruptible mortal when he came to an earth life a second time .. he was in a state of sinlessness.. Despite his condescension.

It is possible that his resurrected body is not like ours. It is in a spiritual dimension and therefore the fact that he transmigrated into a body in the meridian of time does not necessary indicate that his spirit and spiritually resurrected body had to ever separate again.

It is difficult for our finite minds to comprehend infinite and eternal things that we just don’t understand.

I suspect you are no happier with that answer than I am… it’s the best I can do right now.

But wait… keep in mind that BY and others taught that you cannot create worlds until you have been through a mortal probation and have become exalted.. if that is true, (and that is one of the few things a I agree with BY on) then… GAME OVER. Christ was definitely not mortal since he is clearly the creator of the this world according to several scriptures and therefore he was previously exalted… he had been exalted prior to coming to atone for us which I had already proven using credible scriptures anyway hence…he obviously was able to lay down his life again.. which does not necessarily mean that his resurrected body and spirit separated…

How is that for a great recovery… I am going to have to give you a brownie point for being the first person to almost stump me.

”I'm not sure whether I agree or disagree with your argument in this post, but I am curious about your rebuttal. I can say, however, that I genuinely enjoy your posts and keen insight. Your blog is a treasure.”

You are way to kind.. make that two brownie points!

BTW
As soon as you find yourself agreeing with everything I say, tie your leg to the kitchen table.. cuz you’re getting close to translation.. you don’t want to leave unexpectedly


PS just kidding about making up an answer... just my dry sense of humor so often found in rebellious Israel

Not entirely put together said...

Bravo! Enjoyed every ounce of rebuttal. And after re-reading my comment, I have to say that the late night must have wreaked havoc with my cognitive abilities, because I really don't know what I question I meant to pose regarding Ether 3! No matter, I have been awarded brownie points. Where may I redeem them for my prize?

Ryan said...

Whoa!

Where does it say that Christ is Adam's father?

I know that he created this world and others, but when it came to creating man, didn't God the Father step in and create Adam? (Moses 2:27)

Are you saying Adam was born?

In another post on Celebacy, you wrote that Adam was made from the dust and that the creation story was literal. I see that this post was 5 years ago, has your understanding changed?

As for Christ's blood, I've always thought that it would have to be different or hold different qualities in order to wash us clean.

You don't happen to have that BY quote. The one which says "BY and others taught that you cannot create worlds until you have been through a mortal probation and have become exalted?"

This really is fascinating.

But I also am having a hard time with something that Joseph Fielding Smith said about Adam helping in the creation with others.

Also, it says in Abraham 3:24:

"And there stood one among them that was like unto God [Jehovah?], and he said unto those who were with him: WE will go down, for there is space there, and WE will take of these materials, and WE will make an earth whereon these may dwell;"

Did Lucifer help in the creation?

Another thing that I've had a hard time with my religious world view is the fact that a resurrected or translated being can be born again as in the case of Jesus and what you teach about Elijah being born again after his mortal ministry as John the Baptist.

Which body does Elijah/John the Baptist use? Does he have two that he puts on and off like a coat? Um, who to be today...? Ah I'll be John.

I'm being a bit tongue in heck here, but I really desire to know.

Scott said...

The Father created Adam in a state of celestial perfection. (Moses in PGP refers to Adam as THE son of God and refers to Moses as A son of God). Adam was born into that world perfect but without a knowledge of good and evil. He fell and needs to be restored to a celestial state but becoming free now by knowing the difference between good and evil. We are all the physical progeny of the Father.

You will notice that when Christ is referred to as the only begotten Son IN THE FLESH... This is because his mother was MORTAL, which gave him the actual ability to die without introducing it through sin, and he was also eternal with his Fathers DNA which allows him to not only raise from the dead, but to become resurrected when he chose to accomplish it. Father taught him how to do it.

Christ was a spirit before this world. Once resurrected the spirit and body do not ever become separated again.

The eternal nature of the atonement is directly tied to the duration of the punishment that is associated with the sin that Christ carries for us. This is why when it says that God sacrificed his Son, it was truly a sacrifice. It is not temporary. You will each become very aware of this when you stand before him. The injustice of his price that he paid to overcome justice with mercy. Most people will reject it when they learn that Christ's suffering is eternal in its nature and they will instead decide to suffer it themselves eternally due to the weight of the justice of God. Only the truly humble will except the gift.

Someone who is watching said...

Great observations and questions

Where does it say that Christ is Adam's father?

It is my belief that the term " Son of God in Luke:3:38 refers to Christ, not the Father. This is backed up in part by virtue of the fact that the scriptures inform us that Christ is the "only begotten of the Father" and also section 76:24 informs us that the inhabitants of the world are begotten "unto" the Father, not by the Father


I know that he created this world and others, but when it came to creating man, didn't God the Father step in and create Adam? (Moses 2:27)

He created Adam through his Only Begotten. He created all things through the Son

And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof..., and there was not a soul which he beheld not...
30 And it came to pass that Moses called upon God, saying: Tell me, I pray thee, why these things are so, and by what thou madest them?...
And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me.
32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth." (Moses 1:28-32


In another post on Celebacy, you wrote that Adam was made from the dust and that the creation story was literal. I see that this post was 5 years ago, has your understanding changed?

Adam was literally created from the dust of the earth in the second creation but it is revealed in the book of Moses that there was a spiritual creation prior to that. Although Christ was in the beginning with the Father, or at least created in the beginning by the Father, it appears that every other organized spirit intelligence had to be created sometime thereafter and very possibly be born.

Obviously, we don't have all the details.


You don't happen to have that BY quote. The one which says "BY and others taught that you cannot create worlds until you have been through a mortal probation and have become exalted?"

"Let me mention one more thing. While we are in the mortal body we cannot “fashion kingdoms [or] organize matter, for [that is] beyond our capacity and calling, beyond this world. In the resurrection, men who have been faithful and diligent in all things in the flesh, [who] have kept their first and second estate, and [are] worthy to be crowned Gods, even the sons of God, will be ordained to organize matter." (JD, 15:137).

Also, it says in Abraham 3:24:

"And there stood one among them that was like unto God [Jehovah?], and he said unto those who were with him: WE will go down, for there is space there, and WE will take of these materials, and WE will make an earth whereon these may dwell;"

Did Lucifer help in the creation?

We don't know



Someone who is watching said...

"You will notice that when Christ is referred to as the only begotten Son IN THE FLESH... This is because his mother was MORTAL"

I am not aware of any place where it says he is the only begotten in the flesh. It actually reveals that he was the only begotten, with a physical tabernacle BEFORE he came to this earth.

"Christ was a spirit before this world"

No, he had a physical body (tabernacle) before this earth.

LoF

"There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing, and supreme power over all things, by whom all things were created and made…

They are the Father and the Son, the Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and power, possessing all perfection and fullness, the Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man….The Father being a personage of spirit, glory, and
power…The Son…a personage of tabernacle"

“And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father” mosiah 15

http://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/is-god-a-who-or-a-what/

"The injustice of his price that he paid to overcome justice with mercy. "

I don't think he overcame justice with Mercy, He satisfied the demands of justice with mercy. Alma 34:16

I think there may be a difference.

Thank you for visiting and sharing your thoughts :)

Ryan Nickel said...

Watcher,

In studying about my comment above about Elijah transmigrating in John the Baptist, I came upon this...

"Transmigration a Doctrine of the Devil" TPJS p. 104

Can you share how you came to believe that Elijah is John the Baptist?

I remember reading about how you read Mark 9:4a or JST Mark 3 that mentioned that he was Elias.

Anything else?

Someone who is watching said...

Ryan

My final post on the Denver Snuffer series is going to get into this in GREAT detail...

:)

Ryan said...

While pondering Christ and his 3 days in the world of the spirit I was pondering the type of body he had to shed it and pick it up again if he already had a body as taught in LoF and Ether 3.

I say Ether because I discovered this last night.

16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

17 And now, as I, Moroni, said I could not make a full account of these things which are written, therefore it sufficeth me to say that Jesus showed himself unto this man in the spirit, even after the manner and in the likeness of the same body even as he showed himself unto the Nephites.

(Ether 3:16-17)

Jesus showed himself unto this man in the spirit, even after the manner and in the likeness of the SAME body even as he showed himself unto the Nephites.

(Ether 3:17)

Someone who is watching said...

Yes, very interesting passages.

They make him sound like he was a spirit when he visited the Nephites and yet he says he has a BODY... and the passages in 3rd Nephi imply a physical body.

Other passages in that chapter seem to weave back and forth.

Verse 6 says he has the finger of a man that touched the stones.

Verse 8 makes it sound like He has a body of flesh and bones.. although it may have been a vision of the future body which is what verse 9 may imply

I think things may not be a simple and clear as we have been led to believe.

Very interesting!!

Ryan Nickel said...

Actually, the way I read it was that Christ showed himself unto the BoJ with the same body he did when he visited the Nephites.

That when he showed him in the spirit that was either a transfiguration to endure or it was a vision as you had mentioned.

Someone who is watching said...

Yes I agree, I was just pointing out that the chapter seems confusing to some because of the wording.

Ryan Nickel said...

I'd like to have more than just this one scripture that implies he had a physical body or body of tabernacle before his mortal birth in the meridian of time.

Also, I just re-read all the comments and it looks like a previous comment I had got lost. Technology has it's way some times.

You had wrote:

Where does it say that Christ is Adam's father?

It is my belief that the term " Son of God in Luke:3:38 refers to Christ, not the Father. This is backed up in part by virtue of the fact that the scriptures inform us that Christ is the "only begotten of the Father" and also section 76:24 informs us that the inhabitants of the world are begotten "unto" the Father, not by the Father

I want to throw in the JST for Luke 3:38 which is JST Luke 3:45 "And of Enos, and of Seth, and of Adam, who was formed of God, and the first man upon the earth."