Saturday, September 13, 2008

#33 "Their names shall not be found, neither the names of the fathers, nor the names of the children written in the book of the Law of God..."

The infallible word of God that came through Joseph Smith tells us that every unconditional promise that God gives in the D&C will verily come to pass .... even if he needs to wake a few people from the grave.... "Awake, awake, put on thy strength O Zion..." (Isaiah 52)

If you are like I was when I began to take the word of God literally, you have probably been mesmerized as you have been re-reading the D&C... it is now coming alive and making sense to you. Things are jumping out at you that you have never noticed before....It is no longer a sealed or confusing book or a book of contradictions and false prophecies or a book that challenges your testimony of the work that Joseph Smith was called to.

You are probably beginning to notice with greater clarity which sections of scriptures are pertaining to the 2nd Watch that the LDS Foundation Work took place in and which ones are referring to prophecies that will take place when the Marvelous Work takes place in the 3rd Watch.

Of course that is happening to you only if you have been able to put down Isaiah which is also mesmerizing you now that you realize that the words of Isaiah are not only speaking historically, but also referring prophetically to our time and the events that are about to happen.

I now want to show you an evidence that is well hidden in section 85 of the D&C.

Before showing this I want to share a fascinating key to searching the scriptures.

Have you ever noticed how Christ sometimes uses very long sentences containing primary topics and sub-topics?

I believe one of the reasons he does this is so that He can embed cryptic messages that are missed by those who are not paying attention and are not searching for hidden treasures of knowledge.

Often these sentences contain the beginning statement pertaining to the primary topic followed by what I refer to as "cryptic filler" which is a sub-topic, then he will switch back and bring the primary topic to a conclusion... a conclusion that will be missed unless you are paying attention.

If you are not paying attention, you will forget about the primary topic He is initially speaking about or at least you won't get the message he is really conveying.

With that bit of information, I am now going to show you some interesting verses in section 85 pertaining to genealogy work and redeeming the dead:

The main topic is in red, the sub-topic is in blue.

It is contrary to the will and commandment of God that those who receive not their inheritance by consecration, agreeable to his law, which he has given, that he may tithe his people, to prepare them against the day of vengeance and burning, should have their names enrolled with the people of God. Neither is their genealogy to be kept, or to be had where it may be found on any of the records or history of the church. Their names shall not be found, neither the names of the fathers, nor the names of the children written in the book of the law of God, saith the Lord of Hosts.

I am not going to tell you how I interpret that very long sentence... I'll leave it up to you... but you might want to read just the red part of the passage without the blue.

We know from Gods holy infallible word that the time will come when the Sons of Levi will offer an acceptable offering unto the Lord and it will be a Book containing the records of our dead. This will be a part of the Marvelous Work. It did not happen in the 2nd Watch 170 years ago... it is not happening now.... but it will happen during the 3rd Watch.

The above mentioned scriptures regarding work for the dead provide another evidence that the Marvelous Work which includes the work of redeeming the dead was not completed back in the 2nd Watch when God was using Joseph Smith to lay the foundation for the future Work to come forth in the 3rd Watch.

This provides another witness that there is to be another watch or dispensation in the future in which this most important work will be completed.

Praise the Lord God Almighty!



Not entirely put together said...

I'm a bit confused. Might you be implying that current genealogy work and proxy ordinances for the dead in LDS temples are being rejected by the Lord?

Someone who is watching said...

My goodness you have been doing a lot of reading lately!

Did you get any sleep last night?

Before I decide how or if I should respond.. would you mind sharing with me how you found this blog?

Did someone tell you about it?

Were you doing a key word search in google?

What were you looking for that landed you here?

Not entirely put together said...

No...I didn't get any sleep last night. And I have you to blame!

A few days ago I was meandering through a few sites dedicated to BoM geography and happened upon a link directing me to your post on LDS Anarchy entitled "A mystical look at the LDS restoration movement". The theme of your blog is not new to me, but I had never seen the argument made so elegantly and in such detail. I figured now was as good a time as any to get caught up on the subject. However, I probably should get some sleep tonight!

Someone who is watching said...

Ok then..

Before responding to your question, let me remind you that the rules of this site are that you begin with evidence #1 and continue in order… not skipping ahead.

You must progress in chronological order.. if, it is determined that you have violated the rules, all previous brownie points that have been awarded will be rescinded.

I realize this is an extremely harsh measure.. and it would pain my soul to have to do this to you, but, rules are rules.

Secondly, it is very important for you to understand that I am a heretic.

Most people think that heretics are “wrong” in their beliefs and teachings but that is not necessarily true.

Here is Websters definition heretic:

1: a dissenter from established religious dogma ; one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine : nonconformist

As you can see, a heretic disagrees with established beliefs or doctrine. That does not necessarily make them right or wrong

As a heretic, I tend to interpret virtually every scripture differently than the established religion I was raised in.

When you stop and think about it, if you are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that the established religion is the purveyor of all truth, then a site like this one or the anarchy site may not be an appropriate site to be visiting.

I throw that thought out, not because I want my readership to be reduced by 25% but rather because there is a time and a season for each of us to take a critical look at the traditions of our fathers and the indoctrination we have received ….and this may not be the time and season in your life to do so.

If that is the case for you, perhaps you should take a break from visiting this and other heretical sites.

Now, your question requires me to provide my disclaimer.

You will notice to the right of my blog that there is a little blurb under that incredibly cute picture of me. It reads as follows:

“Any commentary and scriptural interpretations provided by me are simply to stimulate thought and encourage people to search the scriptures. The only parts of my posts and/or articles that should be taken seriously are the scriptures quoted from the holy, eternal and infallible word of God.”

I am what the scriptures refer to as the “arm of flesh”

What this means, is that what I appear to be saying in the post is insignificant because I am fallible.

If my interpretations and pontifications are of any use at all it would by to jolt you into thinking laterally and looking a little deeper into doctrines you have always taken for granted and helping you dissect and analyze and cross reference and check definitions, and then, of course to seek what the spirit tells you… etc.

At the end of the day, each of us is responsible for what we really believe and how we interpret the scriptures.

Each of us has been commanded to “search the scriptures” and “treasure up the word of God” and to “take the Holy Ghost as our guide” to confirm the proper understanding and interpretations of the scriptures.

If the scriptures you have studied and the Holy Spirit has confirmed to you that the genealogy work and proxy ordinances for the dead in LDS temples are valid then of course you should be doing them.

Incredible things are about to happen in the earth.. the Marvelous Work is about to come forth, the first laborers on the last kingdom are about to begin the 2nd commission in the 3rd Watch.

They will warn this wicked hypocritical nation before the final judgment begins. They will be calling EVERYONE to repentance.

Are you watching?

I am Watching!

Not entirely put together said...

Brownie points galore, for, as per request, I have read the posts in order and have not asked questions out of sequence.

Yes, I am keenly aware of your heretical position, so the naivete of my inquiry was not born of surprise--I understand the consequences of interpreting the parable of the olive trees as inferred in post #12--but my question stems from confusion regarding your global attitude, or view, of the contemporary LDS church. If the 'shepherds' have led the people astray, and all are deluded, and the fulness of the priesthood has not been restored given that the temple was not completed, then is the modern "scattered" church apostate and powerless, or does it, and the presidents of the church, serve as a vehicle/stewards of restored truths and powers, and are simply awaiting the return of the first elders? Might it be compared to a preparatory gospel? Under condemnation? Or is one justified in leaving the LDS church altogether, having one's name blotted out, without any consequence? Is it better to be like Orson Pratt, and withstand incorrect doctrine for a season?

On a more sober note, I do not think the LDS church is the purveyor of all truth, nor does it need to be. The Spirit is charged with that responsibility, He teaches, and I know in whom I can trust, and to whom I must go for answers.

I have enjoyed your posts because I have gained valuable insight, but I have not felt the need to subscribe to all your interpretations. Nevertheless, I am watching, for this much I know, that tribulation lies ahead and only God can deliver.

Now I'm going to bed!

Someone who is watching said...

My goodness you are a quick study!

Next week you will be speaking in tongues and translating ancient records!

Please don’t start a church or claim to be the one mighty and strong.

Being a literalist, I accept the fact that the quorum of the 12 at the time of the martyrdom had been called by revelation and that the commandment given them in section 112 and other places by the infallible word of God was a valid commission that they and their predecessors have attempted to carry out for the last four generations..

Namely for them to; 1) “bear testimony” of the Name of Christ and 2) “Send forth Gods word to the ends of the Earth”

To this end, they are doing a work. The Book of Mormon needs to be presented to as many people as possible even during times of darkness and the church has certainly sent a lot of them out.

The book of Mormon will be a blessing to those who read it and prepare themselves to receive the fullness of the Gospel. It will be a witness and a cursing against those who don’t.

The testimony that follows every talk given by general authorities has become a prophetic trademark.

I make no judgments as to how good a job they are doing in their stewardship and the additional representations they bundle in with the package, God will judge that.

The other questions you ask are incredibly insightful and at the light speed you are progressing, I think I’ll just wait another week and then I’ll ask you.

Thank you for visiting

Just Peachy said...

OWIW, I was using this scripture in a comment to LDS Anarchy, and he said the following,

"Okay, Just Peachy, about section 85. My understanding is that Joseph was having problems with the bishop in Zion, Bishop Edward Partridge. He was not fulfilling his calling the way that he was told to do so by God. He was supposed to receive consecrations of the saints and appoint to them their inheritances. In other words, he was supposed to appoint inheritances ONLY by consecration. Bishop Partridge wasn’t doing this. Some members were arriving and not entering into the law of consecration, yet obtaining inheritances from the bishop nonetheless. In other words, he was capitulating to these people, as they refused to deed over their property. Joseph, in frustration that the bishop wasn’t acting as he was supposed to, wrote to W. W. Phelps, the editor of the Evening and Morning Star publication, who published parts of the letter.

So, the revelation doesn’t mean that if we are not living the law of consecration, our temple work is invalid, it means that if we have received an inheritance by means other than consecration, we and our posterity are screwed. In other words, the revelation is talking about the way inheritances are received, and condemning those who do it in the wrong manner. Last I checked, no modern bishop of the church is appointing inheritances in Zion and last I checked, no LDS has received an inheritance in Zion by a bishop, therefore, these verse DO NOT APPLY TO MODERN LDS. When inheritances in Zion are again appointed to saints by bishops, it must be done in the way specified in this revelation. Until that happens, you needn’t lose sleep over this issue."

Is this bit of history from the Institute Manual, whitewashed history? do you have a different background setting for Section 85?

Someone who is watching said...

Great question.

There are those among us that have good hearts and they mean well however, they are still in the mode of defending the church instead of defending the faith... or in other words, defending the truth.

You recently had a similar experience where that person challenged what is plainly taught in the scriptures using a statement out of a church manual.

Have you had the opportunity to review the nine pages of documentation that Mrs. Watcher posted for you on that topic?

It is pretty amazing to compare one statement from a manual where an apologist incorrectly paraphrased something out of the history of the church vs. the overwhelming amount of historical and scriptural documentation to the contrary.

Regarding these particular passages, I submit to you that they mean exactly what they say.

My personal opinion on what they say is only important to my own personal salvation, hence it is of no consequence to you.

You are the one that will ultimately stand to be judged upon your own amount of light and knowledge that you have acquired.

It is not my desire to interpret scriptures for people but rather to get them to learn how to search and interpret and understand the scriptures for themselves under the influence of the spirit.

I suggest that you carefully read and ponder and pray about these passages. Then do some key word, key phrase and key topic searches in the scriptures.

I think it will become apparent to you what the scripture is saying.

Just Peachy said...

I was not asking for your interpretation. I know that you have in your possession some comentaries on the D&C, and I was wondering what the historical background to Section 85 was.

But..., on the other hand, Since the scriptures are written to be applied personally, maybe the historical context is not important. Section 85 does work out to be a chiasm though.

Someone who is watching said...

Just Peachy

You sent a comment that I am not going to post simply because some of the contents within it is a little off topic for what I want this blog to address.

However, I am going to respond to your comments.. on my other blog.

When the response is ready, I'll leave a comment here with the link.

Or you can just check for it over at


Ahuizotl said...

I guess this is why those who are not tithed in the true form after they've consecrated will not have root or branch at the great and terrible day of the Lord.