Sunday, August 24, 2008

#6 A seer will I raise up...not to the bringing forth of my word only..but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth..."

"A seer will I raise up...not to the bringing forth of my word only..but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth..." 2nd Nephi 3:11

I have shown that Joseph Smith taught that he and the other first elders have a second commission in which they would bring the elect out of Babylon power and bring forth the greater light.

I followed that with section 88 which shows that Joseph and the first laborers of the last kingdom would be called again to the commission with which they had been called for the last time to give the last warning to the world, bind up the law, seal up the testimony and prepare the Saints for the hour of judgment which is to come as they warn people to escape the wrath of God.

"Now I want to show a verse in 2nd Nephi 3 that shows that Joseph Smith was to first bring forth the word of God (Book of Mormon, D&C & JST) and then, at a later time, after the bible which had been altered by the Great and abominable church had previously gone forth among the gentiles and additional scripture had already gone forth during the 2nd watch, ie, Book of Mormon and D&C, Joseph Smith would return to convince people of the truthfulness of the Bible as well as the word of God that had previously been brought forth.."

"But a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins—and not to the bringing forth my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them. (2nd Nephi 3:11 see also JST Gen 50:30)

This provides another testimony from 2nd Nephi and Gen 50 of the two part calling of the Prophet Joseph Smith and the fact that the Marvelous Work was to come forth at a later time after the Restoration of the Church.

In the
first commission Joseph brought forth a portion of Gods word, however he was not able to publish the corrections to the Bible that had been corrupted.

In the
second commission he will bring forth the Bible in its original condition containing the fulness of the Gospel along with the LAST RECORDS. This will convince the Gentiles that the Bible and the scriptures Joseph had previously brought forth art true!

10 comments:

listener said...

Watcher,

It seems to me that the word which "shall have already gone forth" can be naturally interpreted as the Bible. That is, Joseph Smith would not only bring forth "my word" (the Book of Mormon), but also convince them of the truth of Bible, which they already had. This interpretation would explain the phrase "the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write," in the next verse, and it's also consistent with Mormon 7:9 (the Book of Mormon, which Joseph brought forth, convinces people of the truth of the Bible).

Now, assuming that Joseph has a second commission, your interpretation is quite natural. But not assuming that Joseph has a second commission, this passage doesn't seem to be lacking other interpretations.

Maybe I should just read on and get a panoramic view of your collective evidence before I question the nitty gritty. But I'd love to know your thoughts.

Someone who is watching said...

Fantastic response!

I love how seriously you are scrutinizing my posts!

I partially agree with what you are saying.

I agree that the word that had already gone forth is referring, at least in part, to the bible.

In fact I should have included that in my post.

I am going to make the following changes if this blog service allows me to retroactively make changes,

"Now I want to show a verse in 2nd Nephi 3 that shows that Joseph Smith was to first bring forth the word of God (Book of Mormon and D&C) and then, at a later time, after the [bible had previously gone forth among the gentiles and the] word had already gone forth [that Joseph had brought forth, ie, Book of Mormon and D&C, he would return to convince people of the truthfulness of the word he had previously [been] brought forth.."

The reason I love your response and the additional clarity and changes it is motivating me to make, is because it not only makes the interpretation of the passages in question more clear and accurate, but it makes the evidence even stronger about the fact that there is to be a future work in the 3rd watch.

You see, once you get a little further along in the posts contained in this blog, I am going to address the topic of the bible that went forth among the gentiles and how it had become corrupted by the Whore and many of the plain and simple truths had been taken out of it.

In a future post that you will eventually come to, i am going to elaborate on how God gave Joseph a very strict command to translate the Bible so that the truths taken out of it will be restored. it is only after those truths have been restored that Joseph will have fulfilled his calling of convincing the Gentiles that the Bible is true.

As you now doubt already know, JS did in fact translate the Bible and correct the problems with it HOWEVER he was commanded to not reveal and teach all of those restored truths until the Saints could provide the financial support to have it published to the world.

Unfortunately, the Saints never provided the necessary funding during the life of the prophet.

(I wish this blog service allowed longer comments! to be continued)

Someone who is watching said...

It is true that Emma kept what is purported to be the original manuscript of the inspired version and that it has since been published and that the rlds church allows us to put select portions thereof in our footnotes of our KJV, however, there is strong reason to believe that there are still some things missing from the JST that has been published.

When you get to the post that I did on the JST, I think things will make a little more sense on this topic.

Additionally, I have since done a post on my other blog that directly addresses this issue as well.

In short, it shows that according to 1 Nephi 13, the Gentiles stumble BEFORE and AFTER the restoration of the church in the 2nd watch because of the pure and simple truths that have been taken out of the Bible.

The stumbling block is not fully removed from the Gentiles UNTIL the Bible has been restored to is pure and holy content.

You can read that article at this location,

http://onewhoiswatching.wordpress.com/2009/12/20/1-nephi-13/

I normally discourage people from reading anything on that blog site until after they have read everything on this site, however, in this case, it might be wise for you to read that post since it deals with this topic so directly.

Once you have read that article I think you will see why your observation regarding this post is so profoundly true yet it strengthens the case of the 3rd watch even more.

The fact of the matter is that the foundation work Joseph Smith did in the 2nd watch did NOT fully convince the Gentiles that the Bible is true.In fact... the Bible does not really contain the fulness of the Gospel until it has been restored to its original condition.

Indeed, Joseph's work in convincing the Gentiles that the Bible is true will not be complete until he has brought forth the inspired version along with the LAST RECORDS.

(please don't read any other articles on that other blog site until you have completed reading everything on this one.. doing so could result in the formation of an ugly wort on the end of your nose!)


Thanks for sharing your observation... I agree with it.

EvenTheLeastSaint said...

I'm sure the great and marvelous work is yet to come. I believe that it will be overseen by the one mighty and strong from D&C 85. I believe that it will be the servant that is prophesied in the book of Isaiah, and again by Christ in 3 Nephi 20:43-45; 3 Nephi 21:10. At the time the Great and Marvelous begins the Servant will be rejected by the gentiles (including the lds church).

Joseph Smith talked about an Elias of the last days who would have the spirit of Elijah, this Elias, or forerunner to Christ's second coming, would gather Israel and restore all things. He, Elias, would do all of the things that you say Joseph will do in his second commission. If you would like to see who Joseph revealed this Elias to be then you only need to read D&C 77 sections 9,11, and 14.

Someone who is watching said...

Eventheleast..

You need to complete reading the 50 evidences.. the passages you have given have long since been addressed and explained.

Thanks for visiting

Watcher

Wondering said...

It seems to me that this is specifically talking about the Lamanites, not the Gentiles: "a seer … of the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give POWER TO BRING FORTH MY WORD UNTO THE SEED OF THY LOINS—and not to the bringing forth my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them." It seems absolutely clear the convincing word is to the "seed of the loins of Joseph" - that is NOT the gentiles, as I understand it. Interesting that the seer is from the FRUIT of his loins but the word is to CONVINCE the SEED of his loins. Could that be distinguishing the different lines that Joseph Smith and the Lamanites came from? It also makes your point powerfully in re: the Lamanites, ie, the book of mormon has "already gone forth among them" but, as far as I can tell, with about as much impact as a lead balloon! In the Third Watch, they will finally be convinced!

Wondering said...

It seems to me that this is specifically talking about the Lamanites, not the Gentiles: "a seer … of the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give POWER TO BRING FORTH MY WORD UNTO THE SEED OF THY LOINS—and not to the bringing forth my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them." It seems absolutely clear the convincing word is to the "seed of the loins of Joseph" - that is NOT the gentiles, as I understand it. Interesting that the seer is from the FRUIT of his loins but the word is to CONVINCE the SEED of his loins. Could that word choice be to distinguish the different lines that Joseph Smith and the Lamanites are descended from Joseph? It also makes your point powerfully in re: the Lamanites, ie, the book of mormon has "already gone forth among them" but, as far as I can tell, with about as much impact as a lead balloon (at least if you take a North American view of who the Lamanites are- I guess this could be read to provide additional support for that to)! In the Third Watch, they will finally be convinced!

Presh said...

Just found this blog and am loving it! Thank you! A couple comments/questions...1) You mentioned somewhere that you believe the 3rd watch is eminent. While I would so much love to believe that, also according to your words you say that it will be 4 generations from the restoration. That leaves us with another 184 yrs. Can you clarify the seemingly in-congruent statements? 2)I'm having a difficult time navigating your blogs. Is there a list somewhere that gives that dates and topics of all posts? That way I can make sure I'm not skipping around. Once again, thank you!

Someone who is watching said...

Presh

As you work you way through the first 30 evidences on this blog, you will see some references to my other blog with a listing of posts from both blogs.

It is best if you don't get ahead of yourself. What you are reading now builds a foundation for what comes later.

We are already beyond the four generations and that is why things are eminent. That will make form sense as you continue reading.

Thank you for visiting

Watcher

Ryan said...

Wondering,

The loins of Jospeh are both Ephraim and Manessah. The Gentiles and Lamanites among some others. But those are the main seed linages.

As we know Jospeh was from Ephraim and Lehi's seed from Manessah.

Does that help?