tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post195297751691093072..comments2023-09-11T02:47:32.772-07:00Comments on Three Watches: The Allegory Part ThreeSomeone who is watchinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08266423098112644052noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-53535572748048737992013-11-14T20:22:25.008-08:002013-11-14T20:22:25.008-08:008 And it shall come to pass that the Lord God shal...8 And it shall come to pass that the Lord God shall commence his work among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, to bring about the restoration of HIS people upon the earth. (2 Nephi 30:8)<br /><br />Interesting that in the 3rd watch it's a restoration of his people and not his gospel. Ryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-31826519916751800782010-02-27T08:08:56.407-08:002010-02-27T08:08:56.407-08:00Those incredible passages are depicting a scene in...Those incredible passages are depicting a scene in the end times where a huge dispute is taking place between Scratch and the LORD.<br /><br />Old Scratch is protesting a mystical event that is taking place because it is undoing everything he had previously done.<br /><br />He thought he had won the war and overcome the Saints. He also thought he had permanently overcome Gods anointed servant who had been dead for many generations, and because of the sins he had committed, had been cast into the fire.<br /><br />All of a sudden Gods servant has been brought back out of the fire and restored to the earth and Scratch is mad as hell and protesting what is taking place. <br /><br />Scratch seems to have been taken by surprise and he doesn’t feel that what is taking place is fair. He feel the rules of the game have been violated but in fact, he had simply been outsmarted by a superior being.<br /><br />God rebukes Scratch for protesting and acknowledges that he has indeed brought the “brand” out of the “fire”.<br /><br />(If a branch can be thrust into the fire, can it not be plucked back out?)<br /><br />The passages reveal that the branch servant has filthy garments on when he returns from the fire because he had offered himself as an atonement for apostate Israel and taken the sins of the people upon him, however, in this incredible anointing that is taking place, new clean garments are put upon him and his transgressions are wiped clean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />He becomes clean again!<br /><br />The angel of the Lord (Ancient of Days) seems to be presiding over this amazing event/ordinance under the direction of God and he admonishes the branch servant to now walk in the ways of the Lord and he will be restored to his position and sit as a judge.<br /><br />The atonement statute in Lev 16 and the Davidic Servant prophesy in 2nd Sam and the Davidic lamentations in Isaiah 59 are all very helpful in providing additional information and filling in the blanks of this prophecy.<br /><br />At this incredible meeting all seven of Gods first laborers of the last kingdom are also returned and are present and ready to run to and fro in the earth gathering the elect.<br /><br />Anyway, the passages seem to indicate that Adam is conducting the return of the branch servant and his fellow laborers at the beginning of the Marvelous Work.Someone who is watchinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266423098112644052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-62803255011499090842010-02-27T08:08:49.417-08:002010-02-27T08:08:49.417-08:00Admitedly, there is not a lot of information about...Admitedly, there is not a lot of information about the exact details of how the marvelous work begins and the chronology of who gets here first, etc. <br /><br />It is possible that the Seer and the Spokesman get back first and that Father Adam comes later.<br /><br />I have two primary reasons why I think Adam begins and orchestrates the beginning of the Marvelous Word and the return of JS,<br /><br />The first is the following passages in Daniel,<br /><br />“I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; <br /> Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom”<br /><br />I am convinced that the time when old Scratch prevailed against the Saints and overcame them took place during the second watch (D&C 103: 6-8) . <br /><br />The above passage seems to make it clear that the final apostasy of the end times comes to an end when the Ancient of days returns to the earth.<br /><br />Another passage of scripture that addresses this topic is found in Zech. <br /><br />It is one of my favorites but I seldom mention it because it is deep doctrine. <br /><br />One needs to understand the scapegoat doctrine and how Joseph provided an intercessory atonement offering, before the amazing prophecy in Zech will make sense to people.<br /><br />Hopefully you have read and understood the information I provided about the “atonement statute” in my final tribute to Sidney Rigdon so that the following passage will make sense to you. <br /><br />As you read the following passages, realize that “Joshua the High Priest” is a code name for the “Branch Servant”, the “Angel of the Lord” is the “Ancient of Days”,<br /><br />“ 1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? <br /> 3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. <br /> 4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment. <br /> 5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by. <br /> 6 And the angel of the Lord protested unto Joshua, saying, <br /> 7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by. <br /> 8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH. <br /> 9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. <br /> 10 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.”<br /><br />to be continuedSomeone who is watchinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266423098112644052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-27305391002175417092010-02-27T02:27:08.970-08:002010-02-27T02:27:08.970-08:00You said in one of your comments on this post: &qu...You said in one of your comments on this post: "We know that the Marvelous Work begins with the Return of the Ancient of Days and he brings others back with him." Do help me with something that I'm working to understand, would you mind telling me if you base this totally on your interpretation of Daniel (saints will be prevaileed upon...)or is it said somewhere else that the return of the Ancient of Days has to do with the Marvelous Work?<br />Thanks so much. I will try to explain my questioning later.CaliMomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-70187779861442614402009-04-04T23:47:00.000-07:002009-04-04T23:47:00.000-07:00"However, because we are only under the law of the..."However, because we are only under the law of the preparatory Gospel, it seems to me that we are really not under the same condemnation that the Saints were under in section 84, since they had the fulness of the Gospel."<BR/><BR/>See, this makes sense and makes me feel better. I was kinda sad to think I was a crappy piece of fruit. But when I look at it as not living the fulness, not having the Holy Ghost always, I have to agree. <BR/><BR/>"Oh boy what a polarization that is going to create! Can you imagine the pointing fingers from those in the large and spacious building as a few of the humble followers of Christ leave the flock to grab onto the iron rod?"<BR/><BR/>Unfortunatly I can imagine this all too well. The heartbreaking part will be the families that are divided. Those who just cannot stop fearing man and relying on the arm of the flesh vs. those who are just starting to SEE and rely on the Spirit.<BR/><BR/>"Let me clarify that it appears to me that the branches to begin to grow and they eventually BECOME good fruit because of the efforts of the servants that return, which is where my hope is for the "wheat" portion of the church, the thing I was pointing out is that BEFORE the mortal wheat are sanctified, Gods first laborers of the last kingdom and his army of Nephites and other sanctified fruit from previous watches first return and bring again Zion and begin rolling the stone forward in the earth."<BR/><BR/>Oh yes, I got that (I think). I think the fact it is an <B>outside source</B> that begins it will be a HUGE trial. Huge.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your thoughts about the destruction and fighting. At least I am not the only conflicted one. I am at a point where I can trust and not fear because there does seem to be much hope and promise. I will have to pray about it and see what I come up with.<BR/><BR/>"Could you please go recruit a few more gals to participate?"<BR/><BR/>How 'bout next time I conduct RS I invite everyone over to learn about the Three Watches? ;P Or I'll just hijack Enrichment Night.TruthSeekerToonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-73499055116300706012009-04-04T07:42:00.000-07:002009-04-04T07:42:00.000-07:00NEPTI need to go back and include the reference in...NEPT<BR/><BR/>I need to go back and include the reference in the post... thanks for reminding me.<BR/><BR/> It is in History of the Church, 2:489; from “History of the Church” (manuscript), book B-1, p. 761, Church Archives, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City, Utah.<BR/><BR/>Here is an interesting clip from the Church website;<BR/><BR/>During the last few years the Saints lived in Kirtland, many members and even some leaders of the Church apostatized. <BR/><BR/>The Church seemed to be passing through a time of crisis. <BR/><BR/>“In this state of things,” the Prophet wrote, <BR/><BR/>“God revealed to me that something new must be done for the salvation of His Church.” <BR/><BR/>This “something new” was a revelation to send missionaries to England to preach the gospel.<BR/><BR/>Heber C. Kimball, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, recalled: “About the first day of June 1837, the Prophet Joseph came to me, while I was seated in … the Temple, in Kirtland, and whispering to me, said, ‘Brother Heber, the Spirit of the Lord has whispered to me, “Let my servant Heber go to England and proclaim my gospel and open the door of salvation to that nation.”<BR/><BR/>Elder Kimball was overwhelmed by the thought of such an undertaking: <BR/><BR/>“I felt myself one of the very weakest of God’s servants. I asked Joseph what I should say when I got there; he told me to go to the Lord and He would guide me, and speak through me by the same spirit that [directed] him.”<BR/><BR/><BR/>The Prophet also extended calls to Orson Hyde, Willard Richards, and Joseph Fielding in Kirtland, and to Isaac Russell, John Snyder, and John Goodson in Toronto, Canada.<BR/><BR/> These brethren were to join Elder Kimball on his mission to England. Gathering in New York City, they sailed on the ship Garrick for Great Britain on July 1, 1837.<BR/><BR/> This first mission outside of North America brought some 2,000 converts into the Church during the missionaries’ first year in England. Elder Kimball wrote joyfully to the Prophet: “Glory to God, Joseph, the Lord is with us among the nations!”<BR/><BR/>A second apostolic mission to Britain, involving most members of the Twelve under the leadership of Brigham Young, was directed by the Prophet from Nauvoo. <BR/><BR/>Leaving in the fall of 1839, the Twelve arrived in England in 1840. There they began a labor that by 1841 would bring over 6,000 converts into the Church, fulfilling the Lord’s promise that He would do “something new” for the salvation of His Church.<BR/><BR/>From Nauvoo, Joseph Smith continued to send missionaries throughout the world. <BR/><BR/>Elder Orson Hyde landed in England in 1841 and later continued his assigned mission to Jerusalem. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>On May 11, 1843, the Prophet called Elders Addison Pratt, Noah Rogers, Benjamin F. Grouard, and Knowlton F. Hanks to perform missions to the islands of the South Pacific. This was the first mission of the Church anywhere in that vast region. Elder Hanks died at sea, but Elder Pratt traveled to the Austral Islands, where he taught the gospel on the island of Tubuai. Elders Rogers and Grouard continued to Tahiti, where hundreds of people were baptized as a result of their labors.<BR/><BR/>Under the direction of Joseph Smith, the Saints were moving forward to fulfill the Lord’s command: “Go ye into all the world; and unto whatsoever place ye cannot go ye shall send, that the testimony may go from you into all the world unto every creature” (D&C 84:62).Someone who is watchinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266423098112644052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-1565527902807791212009-04-04T07:30:00.000-07:002009-04-04T07:30:00.000-07:00TruthSeekerToo"So is there any good fruit rig...TruthSeekerToo<BR/><BR/>"So is there any good fruit right now? I get the feeling from this allegory that it is all bad."<BR/><BR/>I realize this sounds pretty harsh, and people don't want to believe it, but from God's perspective, the answer is NO in the ultimate sense. <BR/><BR/>However, because we are only under the law of the preparatory Gospel, it seems to me that we are really not under the same condemnation that the Saints were under in section 84, since they had the fulness of the Gospel. <BR/><BR/>At the beginning of the foundation movement the Lord said;<BR/><BR/><BR/>"And there are none that doeth good except those who are ready to receive the fulness of my gospel, which I have sent forth unto this generation." D&C 35: 12<BR/><BR/>I believe we are in a similar situation right now as we are getting ready for the servants to return in the 3rd watch.<BR/><BR/>Although we have not yet been sanctified by the Law of the Gospel and have not entered into the gate and, as a group, have not consecrated ourselves and established Zion, we CAN do good and be justified before God by relying on the grace of God and preparing our hearts and minds to receive the fulness of the Gospel when the light shines forth.<BR/><BR/>Oh boy what a polarization that is going to create! Can you imagine the pointing fingers from those in the large and spacious building as a few of the humble followers of Christ leave the flock to grab onto the iron rod?<BR/><BR/>"Then there is the wheat & tares allegory that seems to say there is some good."<BR/><BR/>Yes, based on my previous statements, there are those who are justified and waiting for further light who are the wheat and those who think they have "arrived" and will blindly follow the arm of flesh and reject the servants.<BR/><BR/>Let me clarify, however, that it appears to me that even many of those honorable ones who are blinded by the craftiness of men, after becoming sanctified by the Law of Justice, and after their pain, will come forth in the afternoon of the first resurrection and enter into a kingdom of Glory.<BR/><BR/>Praise God for his infinite mercy and for multiple kingdoms.<BR/><BR/>"I think it is very, very significant that the fruits become good before the branches. I think most will have a very hard time with that. It won't be the branches turning the fruit good."<BR/><BR/>Let me clarify that it appears to me that the branches to begin to grow and they eventually BECOME good fruit because of the efforts of the servants that return, which is where my hope is for the "wheat" portion of the church, the thing I was pointing out is that BEFORE the mortal wheat are sanctified, Gods first laborers of the last kingdom and his army of Nephites and other sanctified fruit from previous watches first return and bring again Zion and begin rolling the stone forward in the earth.<BR/><BR/>"What an amazing thing to be "preserved." I would equate that with entering into the rest of the Lord."<BR/><BR/>Amen!<BR/><BR/>"Slight detour:<BR/>Something I am still confused about is the destruction, war and all that.<BR/>Sometimes what I read indicates that the elect will be safe in Zion and not take part in any fighting.<BR/>Other times scriptures seem to be saying that the servants or righteous/elect are going to fight."<BR/><BR/>This is a great question... one that I have struggle with for a long time.<BR/><BR/>I still don't feel like I know for sure. For instance the Lord says "I will fight your battles" in one place, yet the parable of the redemption of Zion indicates that the Servant gathers "all the strength of mine house" and pull down the tower and avenge me of min enemies, etc.<BR/><BR/>I guess if the power of the Lord is with his armies, he is in effect fighting their battles...<BR/><BR/>but getting further into the question you bring up... are we mortal included in that parable or is it the translated beings that return to the earth that do it or do we join them?<BR/><BR/>I can read it both ways.<BR/><BR/>On a related topic, some scriptures seem to indicate that those mortals that repent are quickly gathered into the chambers while the wrath of God and his armies sweep the nation. <BR/><BR/>There are other scriptures that indicate that even the elect shall not avoid the first part of the tribulations that hit.<BR/><BR/>"I really like the image of the elect joyfully singing and skipping off to Zion! Not the gun toting, sword wielding one.<BR/>What can I say? I'm such a girl!"<BR/><BR/>You are a very unusual one at that. It seems that most of the visitors interested in these deeper things are guys but I must say that it is a wonderful and refreshing and much needed dynamic to have the two or three gals that have been adding their perspective!<BR/><BR/>I find it so interesting that the scriptures refer to justice as male gender and mercy as female gender.<BR/><BR/>It is very important and edifying to have the balancing perspectives of both genders participating. Could you please go recruit a few more gals to participate?<BR/><BR/> vive la dif·fé·renceSomeone who is watchinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266423098112644052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-74404023321220633272009-04-04T06:43:00.000-07:002009-04-04T06:43:00.000-07:00NEPT"To add to that, the parable of the viney...NEPT<BR/><BR/>"To add to that, the parable of the vineyard in D&C 101 describes the redemption of Zion while the allegory in Jacob 5 treats the reconciliation of the Jews/Israel to their Redeemer. I can easily imagine a unique "servant" for each case."<BR/><BR/>That is a very important distinction!<BR/><BR/>Thank you.Someone who is watchinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266423098112644052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-16980650305022700662009-04-04T05:11:00.000-07:002009-04-04T05:11:00.000-07:00Hey Watcher,JS's statement that you have sprinkled...Hey Watcher,<BR/><BR/>JS's statement that you have sprinkled throughout this and some other posts...<BR/><BR/>“the Lord has revealed to me that SOMETHING new must be done for the Salvation of the Church”<BR/><BR/>...where does it come from?NEPTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-88509285929229226342009-04-03T23:17:00.000-07:002009-04-03T23:17:00.000-07:00I love that talk on pride by Benson. I'll have to ...I love that talk on pride by Benson. I'll have to read it again. I didn't remember any mention of polygamy! <BR/><BR/>So is there any good fruit right now? I get the feeling from this allegory that it is <I>all</I> bad. Then there is the wheat & tares allegory that seems to say there is some good. <BR/><BR/>I think it is very, very significant that the fruits become good before the branches. I think most will have a very hard time with that. It won't be the branches turning the fruit good.<BR/><BR/>What an amazing thing to be "preserved." I would equate that with entering into the rest of the Lord.<BR/><BR/>Slight detour:<BR/>Something I am still confused about is the destruction, war and all that. <BR/>Sometimes what I read indicates that the elect will be safe in Zion and not take part in any fighting.<BR/>Other times scriptures seem to be saying that the servants or righteous/elect are going to fight.<BR/><BR/>I really like the image of the elect joyfully singing and skipping off to Zion! Not the gun toting, sword wielding one.<BR/>What can I say? I'm such a girl!<BR/><BR/>I have many more thoughts, but I must sleep.TruthSeekerToonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-49857708859788477412009-04-03T21:23:00.000-07:002009-04-03T21:23:00.000-07:00And as a side note...D&C 103:21 gives new mean...And as a side note...<BR/><BR/>D&C 103:21 gives new meaning to the Prophets statement that he "would be a second Mahomet to this generation".<BR/>Especially in this day and age.<BR/><BR/>Watch carefully.NEPTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-91156370219420273812009-04-03T21:07:00.000-07:002009-04-03T21:07:00.000-07:00To add to that, the parable of the vineyard in D&a...To add to that, the parable of the vineyard in D&C 101 describes the redemption of Zion while the allegory in Jacob 5 treats the reconciliation of the Jews/Israel to their Redeemer. I can easily imagine a unique "servant" for each case.NEPTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-80053085960652586732009-04-03T19:52:00.000-07:002009-04-03T19:52:00.000-07:00Anonymous said"...So on Jacob 5:70 on footnote A w...Anonymous said<BR/><BR/>"...So on Jacob 5:70 on footnote A which servant is singular, could the footnote be wrong, or could that imply one of the most profound mysteries of the Kingdom, regarding the Lord of the Vineyard's Servant?"<BR/><BR/>Great catch! It is certainly a possibility, however, I personally think that the Servant of the Lord of the Vineyard is Michael, our Father Adam.<BR/><BR/>I think the servant in the parable of the redemption of Zion (in 101) is a different person than the servant in the allegory in Jacob.<BR/><BR/>Having said that, I do think there is a very important inter-relationship between the parable and the allegory. And those footnotes wold have been more appropriate under "b" than "a". <BR/><BR/>I think the relevance of 101:50 and 103:21 is helpful in identifying who the other servants are that Michael brings with him.<BR/><BR/>We know that the Marvelous Work begins with the Return of the Ancient of Days and he brings others back with him.<BR/><BR/>The other servants would certainly include the Seer, the Spokesman and everyone of the first laborers of the last Kingdom the Lord was speaking to in section 29 and section 88 (See my article entitled "Seven Shepherds and an Angel"<BR/>http://ldsanarchy.wordpress.com/2008/11/16/seven-shepherds-and-an-angel/Someone who is watchinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266423098112644052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-85967325364185733262009-04-03T19:39:00.000-07:002009-04-03T19:39:00.000-07:00NEPTI see what you mean.. it does seem a little co...NEPT<BR/><BR/>I see what you mean.. it does seem a little contradictory. <BR/><BR/>Compared to the time frame between the 1st and 2nd watches, the time frame between the 2nd and 2rd watch is pretty short.. <BR/><BR/>AnonSomeone who is watchinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266423098112644052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-66446619081757495262009-04-03T18:52:00.000-07:002009-04-03T18:52:00.000-07:00So on Jacob 5:70 on footnote A which servant is si...So on Jacob 5:70 on footnote A which servant is singular, could the footnote be wrong, or could that imply one of the most profound mysteries of the Kingdom, regarding the Lord of the Vineyard's Servant?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1749680236621844342.post-40572406221237578092009-04-03T18:08:00.000-07:002009-04-03T18:08:00.000-07:00When I read your statement..."The period of time d...When I read your statement...<BR/><BR/>"The period of time during which the scattered remnants of Israel begin to believe and gather to America and the beginning of the 3rd watch is a relatively long time! It is several generations!"<BR/><BR/>...I had to laugh because just a few lines before when I read verse 7 from 2 Nephi 30:<BR/><BR/><I>...and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure and a delightsome people.</I><BR/><BR/>I said to myself, "Wow, that's a relatively short time from now."<BR/><BR/>But as you pointed out at the end of the post, the 3rd watch begins within a relatively short time from the 2nd watch. Be ready.NEPTnoreply@blogger.com